Ep018: Joy of Procrastination LIVE

A show first... Direct from Podcast Central, Toronto; It's Joy of Procrastination: Live!


Transcript: The Joy of Procrastination Ep018


Dan: Mr. Jackson.

Dean: Wow.

Dan: Wow.

Dean: It sounds so like right … it sounds so three-dimensional.

Dan: It's almost like three feet apart.

Dean: It's almost like I could reach out and touch you.

Dan: Let's just try it there.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Yes, okay, yes. Anyway, unlike every other procrastination priority conversation that Dean and I have had up until now which was at a distance, today we're in the main studio at studio central of the Home Planet of strategic coach today.

Dean: The Joy of Procrastination Live.

Dan: Live.

Dean: This is exciting.

Dan: We're in the studio sitting across the table from each other. It's interesting though but I find that how we're situated never really impacts a bunch on our conversations because our conversations are …

Dean: I think you're right, it's the same conversation.

Dan: It's the same conversation. It was very interesting since I talked to you last I've launched another podcast series with Steve Crane. Steve long time 20 years since he joined the program and fascinating entrepreneur and what he's doing in New York City but we have one called batteries included.

Dean: I love that.

Dan: It's actually on the mindset scorecards. We're looking at our mindset scorecard here in the studio and it would be the person described in column four would be batteries included individual.

Dean: Oh great.

Dan: It's very interesting because Steve really wanted to be a good partner in the podcast. What he did is he listened to all of the podcasts that I've done with other people and took notes but the model for him of how he wanted to be in the batteries included podcast was the teamwork that you and I …

Dean: Oh that's great.

Dan: … have on the procrastination period.

Dean: I really enjoy that too. I mean, the way I look at it, what was really interesting is Jerry Seinfeld has a new show on the internet called Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. What's fascinating to me about that is that, of course, it's the only way that Jerry Seinfeld would want to do a show. It's not in any way as if they're acknowledging that it's even a show. There's cameras following him around, having coffee and spending time with people that he just loves to talk to and they never even acknowledge the cam. They're not turning to the cameras, well our guest today is whoever. It's just the conversation and I think that's what we have the essence of there.

Dan: Yeah. I think so.

Dean: That's my favorite from it.

Dan: One of the interesting things is that I've taken a huge shift in the last year, probably the biggest way that I organized myself how I do teamwork with other people and it has to do with another concept in the program which is called the ABC model which is the topic of our book for this quarter. This is a book that will come out about six months from now. A is activities you find irritating, B are activities that you find okay but the sweet spot where you really want to get to are activities that actually fascinate you. I started looking historically to those three emotions where have I been caught up in things that were just irritating merely okay but where have been the high points when I was really in my area of fascination. The only work that I find fascinating and interestingly enough would never procrastinate on is where all I'm required to do is have a conversation with someone.

Dean: Yeah. We talked a little bit about that and I've been observing it in myself that that's really the things that I love more than anything is and so I look that now in the last this six months now. We just finish six months of the year, that I've got this really nice rhythm going of doing podcast to do my More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcast which drives all of the content that I use for three emails a week that go out and make all of the offers that we have in our super signature. All of the things that allows me to do, those are all supportive of talking just like you said like I looked at it, the podcast, the breakthrough blueprint events are just conversation in a room doing calls with our email mastery members or our real state members just having conversations. It's really, it's the power move, conversation is the one.

Dan: Yeah. Well, what's really interesting is that we always had two things that were true about us but now I think we have the trifecto and the trifecta rather. The trifecta is that we're in the Kolbe Profiling System were both 10 quick starts.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: We're both significantly ADD. We had those two … we had the merit badges for both of those Weller and I should say this, Weller end over the years.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Nothing illegitimate about our reputations with that. The third thing is that the basic activity that we both find is the most fascinating in which committing yourself for 25 years to it is exactly the same activity which is conversations, which we prefer are not in any way predictive. In other words, when we start …

Dean: Repetitive.

Dan: Yeah, repetitive or predictive and probably love it.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I really, really love it.

Dean: Let us think from a high velocity standpoint. When you think about it, the purest thing is that we have ideas. We have thoughts. We have put those into package ways to get them out to the world to help affect change. When I look at it that the highest velocity way to get downloaded from your brain out into the world is through your mouth. It's the fastest way, short of maybe in the future we'll be able to telepathically just download our stuff. Right now, the fastest, easiest output is conversation. You really realize that is the raw material there and from that, so much derivative can come.

I mean I love watching you take the books that you're doing from the core idea of talking and having that transcribed and turn that into book. You've really refined that and turn that into an amazing process or even you're able to create cartoons and illustrations through content or through conversation without having to draw things out, without having to do any of the things that as I always say require opposable thumbs.

Dan: Yeah. Let me go one step further with the conversation because this has a lot do to with procrastination. It was really our discussion now pushing 12 months since we've started this process. In addition to the ABC model, the other model is what do I procrastinate on? What do I … and I procrastinate most on any activity where my involvement requires that I go off by myself and produce something.

Dean: Yes, yes.

Dan: Hands down. If it requires that I'm going to go off and I have to do something and I have to get something ready, I have to package something and that I find … well, first of all it's an irritating activity for me but I am going to procrastinate. I am going to do it at the last possible moment.

Dean: I think to add to that for the way mine works as well is that plus for me whenever there's something that I have to evaluate options and make a decision on something without all the sort of … I don't know what to say, without the facts because I'm not a fact finder. I'm just observing when I do procrastinate things. That's typically it might be things like making complex travel arrangements or making decisions about timing of things. When I don't know and I think it's part of … we haven't really talk about the other layer of this, of our Myers-Briggs Types but being that perceiver is the thing that likes to keep options open. That's kind of …

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: There's something, that's why I was so meek those kinds of decisions at the last moment.

Dan: Yeah. I mean, one the fascinating areas of our whole discussion here is because there … first of all, some of the mindsets that we've already covered in the procrastination priority. One is that everybody does. I mean, I've had challenges where people say, "Well, you can't prove to me that I'm a procrastinator." The longest that the person has ever gone under challenging me about that is about two minutes and in two minutes …

Dean: You approve it.

Dan: … I approved that they are procrastinator. The thing is, a lot of people compartmentalize their lives. They said, "Well, as an entrepreneur, I don't procrastinate at all." I said, "Well, that must make you a rare person in the settings where you're operating. I mean, do you notice for example that what you claim is true about yourself that you don't procrastinate. Actually, people around you actually are procrastinators." They said, "Oh yeah, yeah, I can see. I can see what you're saying here is applicable but it's not applicable to me." I said, "So do you have someone that you depend upon who is a procrastinator?" He said, "Oh yeah." I said, "Does it annoy you?" "Yeah." I said, "Have you done anything about it?" They procrastinate.

Dean: Yeah exactly.

Dan: They procrastinate. I mean, I only deal with good people, so they are good enough to take it in the spirit of the learning …

Dean: Yeah right.

Dan: … and everything like that. I think one of the big things that we've really established here, which I think is unique because I've done internet searches on all the most authoritative people on procrastination and why it happens. I think that were the first conversation was to have ever established that you always procrastinate for good reasons. Every procrastination, the procrastination is telling you something about the fix that you've gotten yourself into.

Dean: That's true, isn't it? Yeah. I think you're right. I mean you look at…

Dan: This is so important to fix for you to solve that the pain is going to keep continuing until you wrap your mind around it.

Dean: Yeah. That was where I go to that conclusion of for me that if I am procrastinating something, it's typically because there's some indecision or unclarity or something that is causing that delay or I'm looking at it as too big a thing and that's where I … that really aha that I had about brainstorming as the thing. Typically, if you sat down, whatever what breaks … I mean, if you look at it, procrastination is really just like delay, delay, delay, delay, delay. Then at some moment, something happens and you get it done. It's not delayed anymore. I was looking to see like what is it that can accelerate that moment and mostly up until recently it had been the need for, like the unimposing deadline where now it's top of the to do list type of thing.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: To get to a point where you could get that action on demand, that was the trigger for me is brainstorming it and that way the next actions are clear because sometimes it's just the silliest thing that if you really sat … I mean, ten minutes of brainstorming is a long time. If focused on, we can get a lot of clarity per minute in ten minutes.

Dan: Yeah. The interesting thing is that what you will know after the ten minutes is profoundly greater than what you knew before they …

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: … but you haven't impose a pressure on yourself …

Dean: Right.

Dan: … that this has to come out in a define package kind of a way. You're just brainstorming. You're just connecting. You're just allowing your mind to say what's related to this. What's connected with this thought that I'm talking about. It's a joyful experience in itself.

Dean: Yeah, it is joyful. I don't know who said it but somebody said that, of people who proclaim that I work best under pressure and the reality is well, it's not that you work best under pressure, it's just that you work under pressure. That's not … there's no magic of it that you don't work better under pressure, it's just that you actually work. That's … yeah.

Dan: Something gets done.

Dean: Yeah, something gets done.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I think when you look at … one of the greatest tools and gifts that you've ever given me is this idea of the 80% approach. For me, that's been a big game changer and I think if I look at that and realize that that's a big good jump from 0% to 80% in something is a breakthrough but going from 80% to 90% of something is not as bigger breakthrough but it takes twice the effort.

Dan: Yeah. It's really interesting. We're getting to the bottom of our scorecard here, round one of our scorecard. It doesn't really matter which one we start with because we can make something entirely new up. I think we were actually number eight which is the last one. This is procrastination becomes priority which is basically looping back to the name of the concept where people get into trouble and we're on the scorecard. Of course, this is downloadable. If you want a copy of this, just on the landing site, just say I like to download the scorecard. You end every day and begin each morning with a sense of guilt about all the things you should have already accomplished.

Dean: That's a revolve in there.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I think that's … yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Some of it has been enforced in police from the outside to make sure that we feel guilty and encouraged. With a lot of parts in my program, I'll say to people, I said, "How many of you in the room believe in the afterlife?" Actually, I think probably the percentage of strategic coach clients as compared to the general population actually has those significant memberships in church, religious communities in church. They tend to be really good citizens in their community. I said, "The things that you feel really guilty about and when you're most critical of yourself and you're being really, really tough on yourself, that's got to be like hell, isn't it? Doesn't that kind of be like hell?"

I brought this up in regard to procrastination. I said, "When procrastination is a secret shameful thing, how do you feel about yourself?" I mean, what's life like the day that you're … from morning until night, you're just feeling really shamed and embarrassed by a secret experience that you know you can never tell anyone else. You can't admit that you're a procrastinator. I said, "Would that be similar to your notion of what the hell would be like?"

Dean: Right.

Dan: Except it's forever. I mean, that was forever. I said, "Well, how many of you has it been forever? As a matter of fact, your youngest memories when you were a child and all through your educational life, college and then into the marketplace and then being a ... how many of you you've always had this experience? Isn't that kind of like hell and everything like that." I said, "Weird." I said, "It's really, really weird." What things surround that secret shame? How do you get relief from that feeling and that lead you pretty quickly to the step of artificial stimulants and certain kinds of addictive behavior and everything else or ways of keeping yourself distracted so that you're not thinking about the experience of being … and it's just a mindset.

Dean: Yeah. I was thinking about this one specifically about the first column there. You end every day and begin each morning with a sense of guilt about all the things you should have already accomplished. There's almost like different layers of that one that I wonder. Because I've seen people have some real estate clients that would run into that situation, just that they're in complete overwhelm. Procrastination, I don't want to say by necessity versus procrastination from inertia that there's a different level of the energy from it.

We went through … like I was trying to help somebody with some overwhelm and this is somebody who has successful business, kids, all of the stuff that days are completely exactly the opposite of the kind of days that I would like wake up and say what would I like to do today? I mean, it's going to get up at 5:30 and go workout because that's only time to be able to do that. Get home, get the kids ready, get them to school, have that little period between dropping the kids off at school and picking the kids up at school to accomplish the bulk of the work day then spending time with the kids going to afterschool activities and stuff like that and then having a little bit of time in the evening to get all these things done. That was what … they have said they wake up every day feeling already hopelessly behind.

Dan: And tired.

Dean: And tired before they already had hit pillow knowing that it's not going to be enough to cure the tired that they're going to feel in the morning again. It's an interesting that there's … and I don't know that's why I wanted to have maybe a conversation about that, the difference between a procrastination out of overwhelm versus the procrastination of inertia or just that it's not any of the time pressures, it's just that they're putting things off.

Dan: Yeah. Well, I mean, the beautiful thing about going into someone's experience where you begin to realize that it isn't one thing that is a system of interlocking in certain sense, misunderstanding of your situation or it's a series of habits that you're in a sense that you're someone who just fills up all the time in the day and you consider any unfilled time a bit of a failure. In other words, well, you could have use that time for this. You could have gotten this done. There's a time. One of the things I really notice about procrastination, it opens all sorts of days about what you think time is and what you think time is for yourself. I know people that if you gave them three hours that wasn't accounted for in the day, they won't use the hours to relax, to sit back and reflect. They would try to fill it up with the activities that you took away because they don't like being alone with themselves with nothing to do.

Dean: Yeah. That's interesting because I have a problem with doing that. I love that kind of thing. I'm interested, what's your default if something that was blocked on your calendar doesn't work out or cancels. You had some time blocked off on your calendar for me today …

Dan: If you hadn't showed.

Dean: Yes. What's your default about how you handle those things?

Dan: I would just …

Dean: Because I would have been wanting you a big three for that?

Dan: I just would have gone to the café and surf the net and see if there was anything new interesting on the net. I mean, I love the net. I was a child in 1951, 1952 who was totally ready for the internet. I like surfing and I like … someone says while you surf on the net and you look for these things, why don't you have one of these programs that finds for you …

Dean: You enjoy discovering.

Dan: … what you're looking for. I said, "Well, I don't surf the net to find what I'm looking for. I surf the net to find things I didn't know I was looking for."

Dean: Right.

Dan: I would not put that freed up hour to good use.

Dean: No. You put it to the best use.

Dan: Yeah. I put it to the best use. That's a freebie.

Dean: That's funny. I'm the same way. It doesn't bother me at all.

Dan: No.

Dean: Everybody cancels anything, I just like it.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Almost giddy.

Dan: Yeah. The second statement here for this mindset procrastination becomes priority, you've always suspected that very successful entrepreneurs have mastered unique personal energizers that you lack. I see that. I see that. One of the things I'm noticing and I don't know if you've given a thought because we work together a lot and we communicate enormous amount is that every year beyond 70s, so I'm 73 now, the fact that I see more excited about my work …

Dean: I dig that, you're my inspiration.

Dan: … has a real impact on other people and they know, well, how is that that you're doing this? I mean, you're not tiring out, you're not getting fatigued and from our perspective, you've already done so much. Yet, here you are or you say gee, I'm so fascinated with what we're doing. How can that be?

Dean: I love that. I mean, you just can't even imagine when you say that to people that I come up to spend time with you, go to the workshops. There's no other place. Where else could you be in a room with a 73-year-old guy, three years into a 25-year plan. I mean, that's like so and excited about it every day. It's amazing. I think that's fascinating. I love being in that kind of an environment.

Dan: Yeah. One of the things … yes and I think I've rebelled against it most of my life is the narrative that if you're going to be successful in life … I mean, when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

Dean: Yeah. I think that's …

Dan: That's my first question.

Dean: I think that's absolutely true. You've always suspected that very successful entrepreneurs have mastered unique personal energizers that you lack. I think that that's true.

Dan: Oh yeah.

Dean: Absolutely. I mean, if that's you've suspected it, were here to tell you that it's absolutely true. They've discovered some things that are different and the way that you look at it. When I go back to our realtor example, that they wait all time the same. They don't have any sense that freeing themselves up from doing the things that anybody else could do other than them, if we look at their day because we went through those process, went through the day and look at the things that only they could do. There's very few. You could argue well so you can have someone take the kids to school but that's not what our number one priority is being a mom.

That is the only thing she could do, take them to school, pick them up, and spend that time with them, that's the highest priority, all the other stuff is fit in. When you just take the work stuff, if you look at it that the real thing is really … it comes down to conversations now that you really think about it, it's like there's no anything … the only things that only she should be doing is talking to people about, telling their homes and negotiating contracts and everything else. All the ABC, all the other stuff could be done.

That thought was something that I had when you were saying, when you procrastinate, If it's something that you have to go off and do on your own. I thought about that too that there's … what that means is that there's not somebody there to catch the words that I'm saying, that there's not … when I'm just required to go out and do something and I don't know that the reason that we can do this is because I have the whole team in the background that as soon as we're done with this, it's on now.

This will be interesting because we're out of our environment and you've got … if I turn around, there's our Willard right there to do exactly that on your side. They'll be some team work to coordinate getting it to my team to get it up. The fact that we're in this beautiful studio here and what we lovingly in my team would call our milking shed to get the mind milk that you just come out and talk and you know that whatever it goes in to this microphone is going to come out the other end and somebody is there to catch it and do something useful with it, because this is the most you want to get involved in it, right here is just speaking it.

Dan: Yeah. I mean, I'm incredibly better at this than I was even when we first met.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I used to spend long stretches doing writing and artwork and doing master plans and everything like that. I mean, you're just telling the truth. I don't really like that. Then you said, "But it's got to be done." Comes and say next thought, it's got to be done. I said, "Well, the fact that something needs to be done doesn't mean that I'm the one who has to do it." I mean, that's an important distinction.

Dean: That's my thought.

Dan: Actually distinction. I'd like to reflect on your very successful 15-year habit that has been enhanced since we've started the conversation and that is that you get up in the morning and say, what would I like to do today?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Okay. I've given a lot of thought to that because I've told it to other people and they say, "Wow. He sure leaves the future open." I said, "Yeah, but I bet there're some patterns to what Dean likes to and doing what he likes to do allows him to see the patterns."

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: There was a workshop. I had somebody coming in who really has a hard time with having freed up time, just having openings in the schedule when nothing happens. I put on the board just the same and immediately, became actually quite a viral. There was Tweet. I do a lot of Tweeting. Now, let me say this, lots of Tweeting seems to come from me.

Dean: There you go.

Dan: It seems to…

Dean: You generate a lot of Tweets, yeah.

Dan: I generate a lot of Tweets, but I've never actually sent a Tweet or received a Tweet.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Received a Tweet, but I am deeply involved in the Twitterverse.

Dean: As they say?

Dan: The Twitterverse. I put up on the screen saying that's tightly scheduled entrepreneurs can never transform themselves. What I mean is that they never get far enough in their minds away from what they're doing that they can turn around actually observe what they're doing.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: The person that you're talking about, the real estate person, there is no distance ever between herself and what she's doing. She can never get a perspective. She can never actually analyze it. I don't know if you've seen this but she would tell you that she has to do that, that she needs to do this because of this and this and this and this and this and the list is long of the becauses that she has for doing that. Yet, if I compare how she would describe her life and how you describe your life of getting up every morning and saying what would I really like to do today you're not doing any of that because you need to.

Dean: Right.

Dan: You're doing it because you want to.

Dean: Want to.

Dan: Want to. I think that this maybe actually the key here that uncodes the procrastination issue. I think procrastinators, when they're procrastinating are not in the world of what they're in the world of need.

Dean: That's makes a lot of sense. Yes. I think that's true. I think that would be an indicator. I think it require space. I think there's something when you're piled under a mountain of things that you feel like you need to do and you have to do and you should do and that mountain is getting piled on top of more and more every day, it's almost like that you don't feel like there's any way out of that. It would take more time to explain to somebody else what they need to do to help you with that than it would to actually do it. I think, that's how people rationalize why, but then they never get that moment of freedom.

I think somewhere between like I look at, just we were talking about Warren Buffett. He takes great pride in the fact that there's nothing on his calendar. He looks on an empty calendar as like he's the joy of it. I had read that if you want to meet with Warren Buffett, you contact his associate the day before you want to meet with him if something can work tomorrow or whatever. That's the just far out kind of thing. I don't know. There's something about that. There's been a combination for me because we've talked about me adding in the question of what would I like to do tomorrow as being I think that's been a game changer question.

I got to and spent a lot of time guarding the position of I can wake up every day and say what I would like to do today. Now, in the last, I would say this year that I've gotten to a point whereby asking that question what would I like to do tomorrow? If tomorrow being my place sort of word for something that I want to lock in, in the future and knowing that the things that I do want to lock in, I want to do this podcast. I want to do breakthrough blueprint events. I want to have conversations with clients. All of those things are things that are on the approved wake up today and do list.

That's been a big change for me is blocking off the times. I just got back from London and Amsterdam and did events in Toronto, London, Amsterdam back to back and had those all filled months ahead of time because of setting them up on the calendar, which is different than I've done it in the past. I would only usually do one ahead at a time.

Dan: How do you feel about that? This is your first.

Dean: I feel great. I feel so relaxed about it because I've got … I really have reach the point where I've really by thinking about what would I like to do tomorrow, what would I …not even more what would I like to do tomorrow, but what I like to have happen tomorrow. If I think about that that it came from what I like to do nine breakthrough blueprint events this year. I'd like to set those up this way. I'd like to have every week three emails go out that educate people that are the carriers for all of these offers.

Dan: Yes.

Dean: To set that up and then to back it up so that it can all happen just for me having conversation. That is I think that's been the big win. Almost had to catch with something because it feels so almost too relaxed in a way, I mean, you think like a catch with something. Well, I should be doing something but …

Dan: Yeah, but here's the thing.

Dean: … it's all happening with … yeah.

Dan: I mean, if I relate this to the central importance of conversation as I have also, would you not say that you're at your conversational best when you're absolutely relaxed.

Dean: Yes, absolutely.

Dan: You don't have other time considerations …

Dean: That's exactly right.

Dan: … everything.

Dean: Yeah, this is the shining light of my day right here. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating to me the things we're discovering in here but they do seem to be connected to each other. There seems to be a very, very integrated set of ideas that …

Dean: You got me thinking about this conversation kick now that I'm wondering if there's anything that I'm doing that can't be converted to conversation.

Dan: Well, the thing that I say is that I want greater and greater teamwork in the future but I never want my part of the teamwork to be anything more than having a conversation.

Dean: Right. I love that.

Dan: Okay.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I don't care what it is. The only thing that I would say as an addendum to that that I find I have the best conversations where I've used a tool from strategic coach called the impact filter …

Dean: Right.

Dan: … to order my thoughts and then communicate my thoughts to the people that I'm going to be talking to beforehand. That takes about a half hour of my time. I said that conversation is the main activity, but I will …

Dean: At least come prepared.

Dan: I will be prepared for the conversation I'm going to have. Not necessarily that the conversation is going to go to the way that I prepared for but I am prepared to be as flexible as possible in the conversation. Dean, I just like to go to the third column here on the scorecard, which reads you have no reason to procrastinate in any area of your life because other people are doing all the thinking and follow through. Well, first of all, that could be true. I mean, there are people have that true. Certainly, all the thinking that's the part about follow through, I'm totally in agreement with.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I'm totally in agreement with that follow through. The other thing is that I find, for example, that I haven't really procrastinated any less since we started our conversation.

Dean: No.

Dan: My treatment of procrastination how I'm holding procrastination, how I'm looking at myself as the procrastinator has utterly changed in the last year.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: There's value in that.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: There's value in that. What I realized is I really want to explore my own activity of procrastinating so that I can give insights and wisdom to other people who are procrastinators. I feel like if I can help someone feel okay about this activity, that's the real contribution.

Dean: Yeah. I tell you, it's been real like I find it as a time saving tool. Because I don't have to worry about thinking about what I'm doing, I'm ready at any moment. I already know right now there's three people are attached to the top three procrastination things that I woke up with today. I'm already in progress on. Typically, I know that if I'm reframing it, that is really just about a conversation. It's really … I've already sent three text messages on the way over here that are setting up for this afternoon. I'll be able to have those conversations.

Dan: Conversations.

Dean: I feel peace about but I woke up and I knew exactly what they were because I really do get into that, what do you got for me today?

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: The top three things that come are always the biggest procrastinates. Sometimes I can get it out to six or seven, but I think that when you get to that at that level that there are. … The first three that come to your mind are the ones.

Dan: Oh yeah.

Dean: They are the ones.

Dan: I mean, the thing that since I think perfectionism is one of the root causes of procrastination. Don't be a perfectionist about identifying. Make sure the three most important to procrastinations. I mean, you're procrastinating until noon because you're not quite sure.

Dean: You're not sure.

Dan: You're not sure that these are the three biggest …

Dean: That's the most efficient way to find my procrastination. No, I think it's the first three.

Dan: Yeah. The other thing and we haven't explored this and it would be really interesting too because we're going to do another pass through the scorecard once we complete one pass in the scorecard. That has taken us better part of the year to do it. It has to do with this Dean. There's a good way to probably wrap up this episode and launch the next set of episodes. The thing is, there's a thought and I've seen it over and over and over and over again in conversations with an entrepreneur that they're worried about how they're spending their time right now because they may be missing something even more important, missing something bigger. I just wondered if you've given thought to that.

Dean: I look back and I get that a lot. I mean, that something that I think that I have had a tendency to look at things and not fully commit to things in a way that could have had a bigger impact if I look back, reflect now on the last 25 years. I think that this framework of thinking with the 25-year …

Dan: Forward.

Dean: … outlook, yes exactly, changes the way that I look at those things. I think that there's … I don't want to call it the … I want to call it perfectionism or that everything, I think there is the sense of there's always more opportunity in living yourself open to having opportunity as opposed to saying this is the thing and extending that out for 25 years. It's a different life experience, a different life choice I think. Like you look at there's not … you've had now the last 25 years of really taking this strategic coach idea and maturing it and you've been focused on that one thing for 25 years. Now, you see where that is poised for the next 25 years. There's something really exciting about that, comforting too of knowing you've got a big enough context to fill the content that you can come up with this. It's going to be fascinating motivating 25 years from now.

Dan: Yeah. One thing … and I share that with I had a group in yesterday of entrepreneurs. I said when I compare and one of the measuring sticks that I use for real measurable achievement in strategic coach is the size and revenue of the workshop that I'm doing. The size being the number of participants I have in revenue. I just did a comparison. I said, my very first workshop when I switch over for one and one coaching to workshop coaching, I remember very distinctively, I had six people in the workshop. Up until that time all my coaching work for 15 years had been one on one coaching. Now, I had six people and it was a group. It's going to be a group conversation. I remember I charged $1,500 for their year, so they got four workshops for $1,500. I was being paid $9,000 for the year and I was being paid $2,250 for each of those days, okay. Boy, it was wonderful.

Dean: You're like, uh.

Dan: Oh, I mean, I was … yeah.

Dean: Paid up front.

Dan: I was like pig in mud heaven. I mean, everything was … yeah, I was paid upfront for it and I got spend the whole day and everything else. It's says now three months ago, I said, I had a brand new workshop in the 10 times program and I had 66 individuals in it. They were each paying me $25,000, so big difference …

Dean: More than.

Dan: Big difference. I said, I'm being paid somewhere between 350 and $400,000 for each day that I do. I said, man, what a way to make a living.

Dean: Yeah, right.

Dan: I mean, my feeling of enjoyment for this one was … not probably equal to that one but there were 25 to 30 jumps in between that first workshop where we took on more people, we raised our price and everything like that. My feeling is 25 years down the road, I'm going to be having a workshop and maybe I have one million people in that workshop and it's electronic.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I'm being paid $5 million a day.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I said, "Well." I said, "The jump is 166 times." The comparison between my very first workshop and the most recent one, it's a 166 times greater. I said why don't I just take that one and go 166 times and it's whatever it is.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I said to a certain extent that first workshop felt normal, it represented the furthest advance of my ability to organize this coaching experience. I have to say the one I did three months represented the furthest advance. I said, the one I do 25 years from now at that time will represent the biggest thing. I said, I don't have to worry about it, all I have to do is …

Dean: Just do what you do, yeah.

Dan: … do what I do today. One thing I wanted to tell you and will continue with this is I do not and have not for quite a long time ever felt that I was ever … when I was doing one activity that I was missing something more important in the world.

Dean: Right.

Dan: I freed my mind from that thought. The way I basically redefined it that the only most important thing that can happen for me in the world is what I happen to be doing right now.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: For me, that's the most important thing going on in the world is what I'm doing right now. People get caught up between the most important thing that they're doing right now and the possibility that there's more important thing that they should be doing right now. I said, well, that's impossible because whatever you're doing right now is the most important thing that you should be doing. I've got one matter where it was and we have a mutual friend who if you are going out for dinner, he won't commit to our restaurant until you're on the way to the trip. If he's reserved somewhere, he'll change the reservation. I said, "Joe, it's going to be great wherever we show up." I said if …

Dean: A mutual friend, yeah.

Dan: Yeah. I said, "It doesn't matter." I said, "You and I being there with Bob and whoever else … " I said, "That's what's going to make it the best restaurant. It's not the restaurant itself that's going to make it. Wherever we … we can go out for hotdogs. I mean, it doesn't really matter, I'd do that." I said, "There isn't something that something else can bring to our experience that's going to make it any more than just the experience that the four of us are creating."

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I said, "Why don't you just arbitrarily pick one and let's go there?"

Dean: Yeah. That's true. It is.

Dan: You like that subtle way.

Dean: The subtle our mutual friend that's going to be nameless, Joe. Yeah. No, I love that but I'd give into that. When I go spend time with Joe, I completely give into the wonderfulness that's about to happen and know that it's going be great. Because there's always great things that happen, it always is. You can't go in with your agenda of that this is what's going to happen. There's always amazing stuff and it's always great. Yeah, it's a different way of experiencing things.

Dan: Yeah. I mean, the thing is that Joe telling himself that he doesn't like that.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: The fact that he's can't be doing this.

Dean: Yeah. Why should I …

Dan: You know what we're going to find out? We're going to find out whether Joe actually listens to this podcast.

Dean: I think you're right. I did have this. I said to him that how relaxing it is that you and I know … like there's not, I would say that between us, we would be … let's not even say equally busy to Joe that there's in terms of the calendar or up in the earnest of stuff but the fact that you and I have these dedicated times for doing the podcast is a delight that it's never … I find that a lot of times we do … Joe and I spent a lot of time trying to find when we're going to do a podcast. Here, we've got the entire year…


Dan: It's always 12 months.

Dean: Yeah, which is so …if you're listening Joe, we love you and let's come over to this side. Let's do something like that because it's …

Dan: Yeah. The very last statement of this and this is the final statement on the scorecard is that you use three procrastinations each evening to achieve three improvements the next day and you do it in the morning.

Dean: It's like you like knowing the sex of what the babies going to be, like the way to the delivery to find out. What are the three?

Dan: Yeah, yeah. That's really the priority. The biggest procrastinations that you have are actually the way of determining the priority of your three most important activities.

Dean: Yeah. Part of my thing now, I always have these procrastinations. Every day, they are always able fill in. What I've really enjoyed if now this idea of to what would I like to do tomorrow is to wake up and that there's already some things on my calendar. I still work these things in around all of those. It's fantastic.

Dan: I just want to say something about this that I know that you are greatly admired by legions of people because of the great value that you've created through your marketing ideas. Have you gotten any feedback from these people who've known you for a long time and made use of your marketing systems and concepts and tools that they were surprise to find out this about you?

Dean: That I'm not procrastinator?

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I think it wasn't as good as secret as yours was I think. I think I'm maybe worn my procrastination on my sleeve more than you did. I don't think it was as big as surprise. I think that there's been some … I do get all kinds of comments about people thinking through the process here. I'm looking at that as admiring the therapy work that we're doing kind of thing. I think that it's … I've led a pretty visibly laid back lifestyle for my business career and so that everybody proceeded with the wake up every day and say what would I like to do today and knowing what those things are.

The thing that people really look at, the third one on my list I know I'm being successful when I'm working on projects I'm excited about and doing my very best work. That's the infinitely scalable sweet spot of the lifetime engagement. That's really the thing like I look at this as a project. I like we're doing this project of the joy of procrastination. It's infinitely exciting to me and were I think doing our best work in this because it's leading our thinking. It's definitely what's driving my thinking and these conversations are working their way into my day to day and it's making a difference.

Dan: Yeah. Well, here's the wrap up for me today and that is that I'm more and more asking this question. Could you do this activity for 25 years and find it more fascinating at the end of 25 years than you are right now? I would have to answer a big yes to this that I can totally see us 25 years from now having the Joy of Procrastination podcast on that day. We've been at it for 26 years and we have more to talk about on that day in the future than we have available to us right now.

Dean: Yeah. We'll be talking about how to get our butts to stop procrastinating or how to help our butts enjoy or embrace their procrastination because they'll probably be procrastinated by then.

Dan: Yeah. Those machines have no notion or what's in store for them.

Dean: That's right.

Dan: To really match humans, my feeling is that they have to fully have all the neurosis and the psychotic quality of humans to really, really match us because that's the raw material that we use. Anyway, a great joy. We put a lot of emphasis on the procrastination but I think we're convincing our listeners that there's enormous joy in this topic.

Dean: Yes. I think you're right. Thanks.

Dan: Bye.