Ep043: Asymptotic procrastination

Join Dean and Dan as they talk about asymptotic procrastination, their progress, and getting closer to the promise of procrastination.




Transcript: The Joy of Procrastination Ep043

Dean: Mr. Sullivan.

Dan: Mr. Jackson, we were only seven seconds apart this time. I think this is the closest that we've beamed in at exactly at the right time.

Dean: Isn't that amazing?

Dan: Yes.

Dean: Well, I woke up with an amazing vision this morning. I've been thinking about it all morning here trying to... Anticipating our discussing it. So I'm excited about today.

Dan: You noticed I'm not saying anything. I'm not saying anything.

Dean: You're just waiting.

Dan: My heart rate just went up an average of 25 points a minute.

Dean: You've already been on the Vasper.

Dan: That's funny.

Dean: That's funny. It's been a culmination of thoughts over the last week and a couple of really interesting observations. Last night, early evening yesterday, my friend, Dick Holland came over. We were going to have dinner and watch a movie. We like to watch documentaries. The documentary we were going to watch, we found this documentary about Steve Madden, who is a very famous shoemaker. He was one of the key things in that movie the Wolf of Wall Street. He was the company they ended up getting in trouble ... He ended up getting in trouble because Jordan Belfort used his company as a shell for things, but it was a very fascinating thing, but that's not the point of this story.

Dick Holland is a 69 year old man. He's been a good friend of mine for almost 15 years now. This was a very interesting thing. We sat down and we got some grapes and we're all getting settled and he is looking in his pocket and he couldn't find his phone. It was literally ... I've gotta go get my phone. I'll be back. He got up to go out to go home, six minutes away. He lives on the other side of the lake, six minutes away, it would take him but the sheer panic of the thought of being at the house here without the phone and now maybe he was waiting for something or needed to be in contact with somebody but it just struck me as boy, that's really ... Now we know we're coming where it's like ... I've been thinking about this that it's like oxygen, our oxygen tank is this phone.

Anyways, he goes out to his car but the phone was there in his car, so he didn't have to go all the way back to his house to get it, but just the thought that he was going to have to go home to get the phone, to be able to breathe for the few hours that we were going to watch ... We ended up watching two movies, but to spend from 6:00 until 9:00 or 10:00 without this oxygen tank was really unsettling. I thought-

Dan: It suggests to you that there's a whole new ... For emergency medical services, there's a whole new procedure called digital mouth to mouth.

Dean: It's true and I started thinking-

Dan: You would've been forced throughout the evening to actually do digital Cloudlandia mouth to mouth.

Dean: This how it all ties together, to where we're ... It's all just this cascade of visualizations and realizations that started coming to me with this, that the truth is, we've talked about this migration to Cloudlandia and that what I'm really seeing right now is that Cloudlandia is literally where the oxygen is. That's what we're ... We've got to be connected to Cloudlandia through our oxygen tank, to feel like we're connected to the world, our pulse is connected to our connection to Cloudlandia.

Dan: I'll give you the 100%, 180 degree position from that. It just struck me, one thing I have to make sure I do Saturday night or early Sunday morning, if you're on the schedule for our podcast, I've got to make sure that my cell phone is charged up.

Dean: Right.

Dan: That's number one. That's the only time during the week when I have any concern about whether my cell phone is charged up. Then I said it's really neat because it gets charged up every Sunday that we have a podcast, but the other thing is I never have to worry about having your number because I just go to recent. I said there's no other number on recent except yours. There's just nothing else. You have 100% monopolization of the function on my cell phone called recent, as a matter of fact, 95% of all minutes. I think extraordinarily useful, very special. It's an event that happens periodically throughout the year and as far as the cell phone goes, that's my experience of tapping into Cloudlandia. I guess Dick and I are on polar opposites.

Dean: It's really funny that when you think that through, the implications of that ... It made sense that I had this visualization of course that we've slowly ... It's been a slow migration like that and it's been over the last 20 years, it's been a slow point where the ... I think we've talked about on a previous conversation that the recent polls that find that 80 something percent of people consider themselves to be almost always online. How that number has grown and how infrequently, how less than five percent of people are online less than once a day. That's really ... That really says that all ... I had this vision, this idea of deep work, that it's really got ... To get some meaning here, that all the deep work is done in the mainland, where we have to really focus ourselves, so it's almost really like being able to either hold your breath or be able to be without that Cloudlandia oxygen, to be able to have deep periods of focus, where you're not connected to that oxygen, the frequency of that.

That's really an amazing thing because I look at it, if you compare that level of, I'm going to call it panic, in a 70 year old man about not being able to sit through four hours without the phone, and not unlike the other end of that, Lupa's 10 years old, Phillip, that's almost like the wifi is the ... It fits with the reallocation of the Maslow's hierarchy to have battery power and wifi as the first two elements of the foundation of Maslow's hierarchy of needs before we get to food and shelter.

Dan: You know what I think it is, is that we don't ... I think it's just a natural instinct and it doesn't necessarily have to do with digital capabilities, but I just came out with my newest quarterly book, which is called capableism. I think you're in your workshop on Tuesday, are you not? Tuesday, or are you the following Monday?

Dean: I arrive on Friday. This Friday, the 8th. I meant to-

Dan: We have lunch on Saturday.

Dean: The 9th, hopefully. That would be great.

Dan: It's already scheduled.

Dean: Good. Then my workshop is the following Thursday.

Dan: I'm just going to check on that.

Dean: No. My workshop is actually in two weeks. My workshop is not until the ... I have my breakthrough blueprint on the 11th, 12th and 13th and then 21st would be my workshop.

Dan: That's great.

Dean: Yes. I'm hoping we get two before I go to London. That would be great.

Dan: The interesting thing is that this is the next book so you'll get it when you come over ... You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to have Anna just fire the ... We could send you the ebook right now, but I'll send you the actual book because ebook is Cloudlandia version of my book, but the actual book is mainland. I'll send you the mainland version of the book.

Dean: That would be great. Have her send it to the Hazelton for me. That would be great.

Dan: It's capableism, so about 20 years ago, I'd been a political, really a student of politics for as long as I can remember and that was very, very much influenced by my mother, that she said it was really important to pay attention about politics and that you should ... When there was political events, you should observe them and then ask questions about them and find out what other people are thinking about. I've done that. As a matter of fact, my very first presidential campaign where something was said that it registered with me was 1948 and it was Truman. My mother said Truman's a good man and Dewey is an evil man. I said that's really interesting. Dewey, who was the republican, she was really... Evil. My parents were Roosevelt democrats, as so many people were and Truman took over.

Then the first one I was really conscious of was 1952 and to my recollection, that's probably one of the first times my parents ever voted republican, which was Eisenhower, who was a Great War hero. She didn't like Stevenson at all, who was the democrat. I watched it. That was one of the first television experiences I had of watching it. The thing about this is that I'm very, very conscious that when you have a bit shift and you have a really big shift in how we organize information, how we transform information, then this has enormous reverberations in the political world. You saw that with ... Roosevelt was the first president to really master radio and Kennedy, in a certain way, but Reagan more than Kennedy, really, really comprehended television. He really knew what you could do with television.

Then we have that ... You have the case that Trump really, really understood social media better than Hillary Clinton did. He knew. They think it was because of all these private information accounts that he got on Facebook. It actually wasn't Facebook that he used. It was actually Twitter. One is he's a master of Twitter himself but the other thing was that they analyzed ... Excuse me. That they analyzed the intensity of conversations. They had artificial intelligence program that could just listen to 30 million Twitter calls. They could analyze 30 million Twitter calls and they could say where's the intensity level about certain topics and one of them was the open border. That's a feeling that the US borders weren't protected and people were just pouring in, and that we were being flooded. That was actually an intensity and the other one was regulations. Regulations that were interfering with people's lives and the fact that they had no job protection.

He just picked up on those and he just started talking about them, like he had gone out and just spent hours in a bar listening to what people were talking about. Of course, Hillary wasn't doing any of that. She knew better than the voters what they needed and she was going to educate them and raise them up and-

Dean: We need to make history and get a woman.

Dan: Or you're deplorable. You're deplorable if you don't agree with most ... The thing about this is that I'm totally keyed into the fact that we need Cloudlandia to expand our business and that this is a huge capability. Where I've made the distinction is that I haven't ... I don't have to be the person in my company to actually access Cloudlandia. What I need to do is just be clear about telling my team what I intend to do with their expanded capabilities with Cloudlandia because my interest is expanding my mainland capabilities, because that's where all the money is. What I want is to spend as little time with Cloudlandia but get the maximum benefit of Cloudlandia to expand my mainland capabilities.

Dean: That's really what it does come down to. This is, I think, the leveling period here. What we're seeing now as all those... If you were to look at the impact, you've very famously hitched your wagon to the microchip. If you say from your first awareness of Moore's law to today, you have been 100% correct in hitching your wagon to that as the big impact over here. Now, it seems like, and this is what I was wondering here, if we're at an inflection point right now, that there's maybe a new thing, that maybe it's not Moore's law necessarily that's going to be the driver for the next 40 years. What I mean by that is if you take all the things that ... That's really been the core of the digital revolution, that everything has gone and been digitized and has gone through what Peter would call that exponential of all the D's, the six D's, digitize, deceptive, disruptive.

Then on their way up, as the exponential curve of the adoption of the impact of digitization has been reached, it almost feels like each of those things, like the big core things that have been disrupted and democratized now through the digitization have reached the asymptotic peak of the curve of that, where the impact now of Moore's law, of doubling every ... It's probably speeding up now, even the doublings-

Dan: Actually, it's slowing down right now because of the heat that's ... They haven't solved the heat problem because as you miniaturize microchips and you pack more of them in, it creates tremendous heat problems for the computer. There seems to be ... They're facing a four minute mile for Moore's law, that they've got to switch to something else now because they've ... Microchips are mainland. They're made up of silicon. They're made out of hard stuff and they're pressing the limits of how much heat they can tolerate because then you just start melting down the inside of a computer through the power that you're generating-

Dean: Regardless-

Dan: Something else will come along because it's needed.

Dean: Regardless of that, we've reached the functional peak of our ability for it to improve the experience of anything that it's being applied to. What I mean by that is that we've gone, if you just look at even just music, or you look at digitizing audio files, we've gone from, in my lifetime, vinyl as the way of distributing or recording music to 8-tracks and cassette tapes, where now that first thing started to be disruptive, to now people could tape record music. I remember they were talking about that before CD's or MP3's really made a big impact there. People were all concerned about the cassette tape and the pirating of music back then. But now we've reached what really is the peak level of that, is that every song ever written is available instantly on my Amazon echo that sits in my kitchen, by voice. I can call out ... We can conjure any song you want instantly to this device in immersive sound, without ... The thing about that is that songs, or the actual consumption of a song is basically a mainland experience. A song is experienced in three and a half minutes of real time-

Dan: Mainland time.

Dean: Mainland time. Taking it in through our earholes. That's the thing. That's the way that we process that information, so the fact that the digitization has gotten us to that point, further speed of that, further ... There's no really functional improvement to that, that Moore's law is going to impact.

Dan: Just a little side note on that. It seems to me that the growth that we're experiencing and your access of all the music, let's just focus in on music as an experience, that used to be very rare and very expensive and now it's literally unlimited and free.

Dean: That has to do, let's say Alexa, you've got Alexa and you can ... Alexa can get anything you want but Alexa isn't any good in helping you determine what it is that you want. In other words, that ... To me, having a conversation with you is great because in the course of an hour long conversation on our podcast or even more when we're having lunch, I'm able to work out in my mind, the next thing that I really want because I'm not bouncing it off a universal access brain. I'm really someone who is in an interactive conversation with me. That, to me, is a mainland experience and not to...

Since I don't know anything about last night, but if someone in my mind had an opportunity to spend five or six hours with me conversing but they were panic stricken because they didn't have their cell phone, it's ... They're deficient on what, for me, is a fundamental growth skill. That is, I can have a ... If I got the right partner, I can have a fabulous conversation with the right partner if they're interactive. Then they think about their thinking. Me, to be in the protected from Cloudlandia devices for five or six hours is actually a great benefit.

Dan: Yes, exactly. I get it. That's really something. It was just this whole ... That's indicative of anything ... That's the world right now. That just struck me, that dichotomy, that spread of a 10 year old and a 70 year old in that same situation. That just struck me as that. You're absolutely right but that's the world right now. That's where we are right now.

Dean: But it's not where you are.

Dan: No, exactly.

Dean: It's not where I am. I consider that I know the difference between the worlds as a huge advantage because a lot of people, they don't see the distinction between the two worlds. I don't see ... In other words, I don't see any ... I see both of the worlds as positive but they're only positive if you know the difference between the two of them.

Dan: Yes. I think most people have been ... At first, the vision that I had where it's like Cloudlandia is really where it all is right now, that everybody is in Cloudlandia, it's that this has overtaken us over the last 20 years like a wave. It's almost like the water level, the immersion of digital has really enveloped us so that it's over our heads, that you almost have to be breathing the Cloudlandia air to function in society. If you go 20 years ago, the first inclinations of it were the AOL discs that were being delivered to everybody's doorstep in every magazine and all these things that you can see the digital wave just falling at our feet there. Then everybody dipping their toe in the water with you've got mail, you've got mail. That then becoming more and more that all the sudden, we've got our full foot in this digital wave and before we know it, we're up to our waist. Are you there?

Dean: Yeah. Then we're up to our neck. We're up to our neck by 2005 and then in 2006 and 07 when the smartphone really came, it was ... That was the beginning of everybody being completely immersed in it now and we're really there where there's no ... I've said it before, this whole idea that the biggest shift was 20 years ago, daring journalism was I locked myself in a New York City apartment to see if I can survive for a week with only the internet as my means of communication and 20 years later, the daring journalism would be I locked myself in my New York City apartment without the internet to see if I could survive. It's really ... That's really that wave that's overcome.

All of that, if you look at that sort of ... If we look at everything that can be digitized, music, how text went first because essentially that was how everything was measured. The only way to communicate or send things by print was by photocopying them. That became a means of distribution or printing. Then when things got digitized, we used to measure the floppy disks that could hold so many pages of text on there, so many bytes of text. Now, it's essentially every piece of written content is available instantly on demand, as long as you know what the title is along with the contents. All the contents of it have been digitized. We've reached that ... The curve has gone above, beyond our ability to consume it because still, the only way for us to intake written form is through our eye holes, which are decidedly analog, through our real time ability to process that data. We can only read one line at a time.

All of those things, that balance of ... Then the same thing with video. You look at Netflix or all of these things, or even Facebook live now, you look at just your access to news has gone from a letter to a long distance phone call, to ... Let's say a distant relative is having a baby, the news would have to travel by letter or by long distance phone call or the phone call coming to say they had the baby and now it's literally we're live streaming the birth and you can be right here and experience it in 3D. It's really ... Our ability visually and video wise to get that.

That leads me to think what... Is this migration the new microchip, the thing that's going to shape the next 40 years because-?

Dan: I think there's actually you have Moore's law but the interesting law was Metcalf's law. Metcalf was one of the early internet guys and he was Sun micro systems. He was the founder or he was one of the key people in Sun. I forget what his first name is. Metcalf. What Metcalf's law says is that the economic value of an electronic network is the number of users squared. This is an important law because what it says, let's just use the telephone as an example. One telephone is worthless.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: But two telephones are really valuable. Every phone that you add, once you've added a second one, every one exponentially multiplies the usefulness of the technology. You have one. One squared is one but two squared is four and three squared is nine, so what it means is that when you have number of users who are connected with each other, the possibility of useful communication, useful decisions, useful action goes up exponentially. If you get to 100, and it's 100, it's 100 squared. If you get to a million, it's a million squared.

My feeling is the real number isn't so much the microchip law. It's actually the interconnection law and that's Metcalf's law, which I think you're really talking about here and what people are experiencing isn't so much that they're not accessing Moore's law, it's that they're spending hours disconnected from Metcalf's law, is that really really interesting stuff is being created, and they have a feeling. That famous thing that Joe Polish talks about, Tom's syndrome. They're terrified that they're missing shit.

Dean: Yes, exactly.

Dan: That's what you may be tapping on here. That's what comes to mind when you talk about this panic feeling, that there's this huge exponential activity taking place but within the Cloudlandia world because it's the world of exponential connections. You're just your lonesome self outside of that.

Dean: That's really, you look at that as very really ... You could argue that we're almost at the top level of that as well, in terms of the connection of people to our world here, that we basically are one, an instant connection away from anybody and everybody. There's no limitation. It's almost like we're approaching the point where I could distribute a message to everybody. We're at that point, where you could...

Dan: You know, there was an early guy in observing this in the 1960's. He was a Canadian right here in Toronto and I actually met him. I spent a lunch with him once. His name is Marshall McLuhan. Marshall McLuhan was watching the impact of television on politics, culture, economics and he wrote a book called the Gutenberg Galaxy, and he was using the Gutenberg revolution of introducing mass printing into the world, and the impact after about 500 years of that, but now it was switching into a new medium of television actually. There were other crossovers like telegraph and telephone and radio and movies, but he was using television as much more of a mass ... It seemed to be much more of a mass phenomenon.

He came up with a line which I think again, I'd like to add to the conversation here. He says the medium is the message, so it's not that ... Basically, if you have a sense of panic that you're not connected to the Cloudlandia world, the message is that you're not connected and that's a message about you, that you're not connected. If you're looking for meaning in the Cloudlandia world, the meaning is the world itself. There isn't any particular message. It's just that you're either connected to that world or not, and that's a profound message in your mind.

Dean: That's really ... That's' interesting. This may seem weird but I was just watching the Joe Rogan podcast just last week and his guest was Kevin Smith, the filmmaker. He recently had a heart attack and it was about a 20% chance of survival, the doctor told him while he was going through it and he was talking about the feeling that he had. To tell that story, he's talking about that he never understood his mother had a heart attack several years ago and actually died for about a minute and a half or was flat lined for about a minute and a half. Came back and he was asking his mother about that sense, like at the end of her life and she felt like she was floating, but she described it as this blissful sense of disconnection, that it was that every care that she had or every obligation or connection was, I don't have to worry about that anymore. I don't have to think about that or that. Just this blissful, conscious sense of disconnection from every care in the world, was gone.

He brought that, in that conversation, to really think that through. It was just that popped in my head as you were describing that.

Dan: Here's the thing. My feeling is that day to day, minute to minute actually, our brain probably collects concerns and fears and there's a buildup of this. My feeling is that a lot of it has to do with the fact that you don't have very much time. That's a big concern of a lot of people is that they don't have very much time, and that time is running out and that things around them are speeding up and that there could be real dangers in you running out of time and there not being very much time and the world is speeding up around you.

There isn't anything else except the water that you as a fish are swimming in, so you don't have any comprehension. What she got for a minute and a half is wow, there's another way to experience this and this minute and a half I'm having in this other realm tells me I don't have to worry and I've read a lot about people, because she had a near death experience, she was physically dead, as far as all the instruments around her but she wasn't because she was conscious.

Then she came back and now she has this tremendous difference between one world and another, and what I've heard of people who've had this experience, they never fear death again. They get really, really-

Dean:  That was the point because Joe was asking Kevin about what was that like, as you're facing this potential imminent death here. He said it was really ... It struck back to that conversation that he had with his mom that he did not.  He wasn't fearing it. He had that sense that he could've very potentially had ... That could've been the end and he was okay with that. He got the thing that everybody is promised, which is a lifetime. That's an interesting thing, that that was what that was and there's no set amount but you had whatever it was, he's 47 years old, that up until this point, it's been a lifetime and if that was it, that was it. It was really a ... It's just an interesting conversation that fits with what you were saying there.

Dan: It's interesting because you don't even have to have that extreme ... Close to not being here experience, both his mother who was actually measured as not being here in a certain way and then he was very close to it. I remember an interview with Mark Wahlberg, the actor. He had been in September 9/11, so on September 10th in 2001, he was in Toronto for the international film festival and staying at, I guess, the four season, the old four seasons. He was supposed to take a flight back, very late flight back from Toronto to Boston and then catch a very early morning flight the next morning to LA. He went back to his hotel but he had drunk too much and instead of packing and leaving his room, he fell asleep on the bed and he missed his flight to Boston, missing the Los Angeles flight which actually crashed into the World Trade Center the next morning.

Dean: Wow.

Dan: He said the moment it happened, he said I was watching on television. He said I realized that because of the ... My not being able to make the flight to Boston the night before, I was now on bonus time. He said what I did is I just reinterpret this whole thing that the rest of my life is just bonus time. He said I was just given an extension. He's talked about this in subsequent interviews and he's talked about this, that his whole sense that he's missing stuff or that his life is deficient, has just disappeared, simply because ... He did that conceptually. It wasn't an actual experience but it was just conceptually.

Dean: I get it.

Dan: It's very interesting, this thing of being able to conceive another world. I said that my next book is printed but the book for September that ... I've just completed all the interviews that produces the text for the interviews, so I just completed that three days ago. One of the things I have said, I've been 31 years with this thought that I'm going to live to 156. Anyone who's heard me talk over the years is I have this thought experiment which I started in 1987, so I've been at it for 31 years and I can't think of anything.  I think about my lifetime and 156, and the three things it's left me at age 74 is that I've got a massive amount of time left. The other thing is that I've got time for everything I want to do. The other thing is that time is slowing down, I've noticed, that the year between my 73rd and 74th birthday, it was just a couple weeks ago I was 74, actually was the slowest year I can remember. It just seemed to amble along, the last year.

What it's allowed me to do is so much to notice how other 70 year olds aren't thinking that way, that I talk to, and that people much younger than me have a time urgency that I really don't. I've got time for everything I want to do, but I'm doing far more than I've ever done, mainly because I'm taking advantage of skilled people who can take advantage of Cloudlandia. My mainland time seems to be slowing down but my use of Cloudlandia is actually speeding up. My impact is going way up but my actual mainland experience is time is actually slowing down.

Dean: That is fascinating. Because this is where I was thinking with this, that it's this ... If we take Metcalf's law of the access to all of the users basically, everybody ... We're at the point where all of the people that are our ... We're trying to impact are already fully immersed in that, that it's not like even 10 or 15 years ago where not all the entrepreneurs were really online or that way. It's to the point now where we're not waiting for the... You talk about the two billion more people that are going to be coming online, those aren't the two billion entrepreneurs that are coming online right now. That's everybody else. It's everybody coming online.

To be able to instantly tap into that, it really is... I think that our brains are struggling with this transition to realizing that we don't have to try so hard in a way, almost. It's almost counterintuitive the way I'm sensing it, that we've got access to everybody and I think about other things-

Dan: We've gotta stop applying ourselves.

Dean: Yes, that's exactly it. I think you're absolutely right. You think about this level of ... You can't imagine the impact of electricity. That still has struck me when you opened up Peter Diamonda's abundance event a few years ago, talking about in 1915 how electricity was just starting to make its way through the United States, through the world and now we look at it that we just take electricity for granted. We don't even give it a conscious thought. Just like we're getting to that point with wifi and Cloudlandia. It's all these things that it's getting to that point now where all of that stuff, we're able to summon or conjure all these things, anything you can imagine. I think I'm on the verge of ... It's right on the tip of my tongue here, Dan, that right now, we're at a point where anything that has already been imagined and made real in history is immediately conjurable from the cloud to us right now.

Dan: Everything that's been captured in some way. Actually, it's very very interesting what that actually does to our thinking. We just have a phenomenally greater notion of what happened before us, and I was thinking about that. There was a little recording. I just tapped into it. I'm trying to think who the first one ... It was the 1870's. 1870's Harrison or one of the very forgettable presidents. I mean there was a whole slew of them between Lincoln, before you get up to Teddy Roosevelt, 40 years and none of them... I mean people say he's not a very important president. I say that's the majority of them. There's just a few mountain peaks that really stick out which shows you the country runs regardless, whether it's got a good president or not.

The interesting thing, he was the first one recorded and then they started recording them. You would get little two minute or three minute or five minute speeches and one of the things that I really noticed is right up until Roosevelt, everybody had a high pitched voice. All the presidents had high pitched voice. It was very, very high, very uncomfortable for us to listen to them. Then Roosevelt had polio and he was in a wheelchair and they very cleverly, because they could, they would never have him photographed or filmed in a wheelchair, so he had to develop tremendous upper body strength but he had to work on his chest muscles so that he could breathe properly. Consequently, he had this very deep voice and then all of the sudden, you notice that politicians, their whole voices start to drop back down because he had established a new sound standard.

Dean: Presidential sound.

Dan: Yeah. This presidential sound generally. The reason is because throughout history, nobody ever knew what somebody who is dead sounded like but now we do. Somebody who lived 100 years ago, we didn't know what they sounded like and now we do.

Dean: Right.

Dan: It changes our thinking about what sounds right.

Dean: This is ... You're absolutely right. Think about that, imagine who ... Just what a gift this is to be living right now, when you look at this, even taking this into the future of ... I sent this to Joe Polish when we first started doing I love marketing, that to think back, how much of a ... How much we would treasure now if we could have, if Claude Hopkins and Albert Lasker, two of the great marketing pioneers of the turn of the century in the 1900's, were to have a weekly discussion for an hour where they got together and talked about marketing and all the things they're discovering, how much we would treasure that now, but we never had that opportunity. That was something that I said to Joe, thinking forward 100 years, what that's going to look like, being able to access that, our conversations. It's a cool-

Dan: I think the big thing, it's either a good thing or it's a cause for distress. I was just thinking of framing a question about one of my filters of whether I'm going to interact with Cloudlandia or not, and the question is what use are the users? In other words, I will use the users if I can figure out a use for them but otherwise, I'm not going near it. It's my created intentionality which makes the users. There is no use for them unless I determine there's a use. There's no use unless I have consciously determined what the use is.

I noticed when I was in London this time, I did a marketing presentation to people who hadn't really been in contact with strategic coach people, and virtually everyone who came up to me afterwards and said I listened to all your podcasts, three or four mentioned the podcast that we're doing together. This is an entirely new reality from let's say three years ago. Then it was just Joe. It was my ten times talk with Joe and you have I love marketing.

Now I've got ... Right now I've got eight podcast series and each of them are doing 3-5000 a month but that's phenomenal where if I wanted to talk to 3-5000 people a month 20 years ago, I'd have to be on the road all the time talking to live audiences.

Dean: Right. Wow. It is really ... I'm just really thinking now about where ... That this is really reaching the new normal here now and what's the thing for the next 20 years that that's going to ... How are we all going to adjust to that because I think we're reaching the point where people are just going to give in and realize that we can't consume it all. You're going to miss shit all the time. There's no ... Your ability to keep up with it is gone.

Dan: I want to tell you, and I'm not sure how this relates but we're getting near the close off here-

Dean: That went fast.

Dan: I was doing a podcast with Peter Diamonda, maybe about three months ago and he brought up the whole point of having artificial intelligence in your house, where house actually senses you and everything, you walk into a room and immediately the conditions of the room are created because you've predetermined that you like the room like this, and it's constantly learning from you. He says this is really coming very, very quickly. People are going to do this. I said, "Okay. Here's a test. You hang out with some of the wealthiest, most technological savvy people in the world and you've been to their homes. Are they actually using all these capabilities in their homes, like the Zuckerbergs or the Paiges or Elon Musk or anything?"

He stopped and he said, "Well as a matter of fact, no they're not. Their homes are just normal." I said, "Why do you think that is? It's not even an action ... It doesn't require any of their time to get that. They can hire the greatest people in the world. They have access to the greatest technology, and any check that it would require to pay and install that stuff, they would, but they don't. Why don't they?" He said, "Gee, I never thought about that before, that they actually don't." I said, "Well maybe they need-"

Dean: I think in a lot of ways though, I think that ... I would've asked Peter a followup question because I think Peter's definition of normal is very different. I look at, for me I totally get what he's saying because I'm surrounded right now, when I walk into my home we have a nest thermostat system where it learned my temperature patterns over a period of time and it automatically adjusts the temperature that when I'm not home, it keeps it up. It lets the maximum temperature get to 74 and I'm home in the evening, it sets it to 72 and then about 9:00, it starts getting it down to 70 and keeps it at 68 overnight and turns it back up again in the morning. I never have to touch the thermostat and it's learned to adapt with that.

I look at my Amazon echo that I keep in the kitchen, that I'm starting to observe myself that I'm using it for any music that I ever want. I can call out and have whatever song is on my mind. Often we'll have a situation where I'll sit in the kitchen with ... I've got a little Starbucks kind of area set up in my kitchen, with some lounge chairs and will sit there and have a ... Spend a little bit of time and have conversation with somebody but go back and forth and have them, we'll create a playlist as we're socializing. We'll summon up the next song and talk about why that song. Or I'm recognizing that in sitting in the living room, connected to the kitchen, that we'll watch a movie and see somebody on there and want to know something about that. I saw Alan Alda was on a show that we were watching, and to be able to call out and say, "Alexa, how old is Alan Alda?" From the cloud, from nowhere comes Alan Alda is 84 years old. To just have instant access to everything that I think that the new normal has become so normal that we don't even think of it as creating or living in an adaptive environment.

Dan: You know, Dean, I have to say something. I just got really a sense of urgency about something, but when you're in, I'm going to see you in two or three weeks. We're going to hook a tether from you to me so that if you get too far into Cloudlandia you'll have a way of getting out.

Dean: I love that. That's the value of having this bright shining beacon in my calendar. It's like the signal to come back to the base.

Dan: Maybe our podcast is the tether. It's actually a tether so that-

Dean: It really is.

Dan: I think you're much more of an explorer here than I am. I was early into it, as you mentioned with the microchips, so it's been 45 years that I've been convinced that we're in this transformation-

Dean: You were right.

Dan: It was a conceptual shift in my mind what to look for and what to listen out to, but I've ... I am a mainline kind of guy who has learned how to get the best of the value from the Cloudlandia and more and more, it's layers and layers of human teamwork between me and the actual Cloudlandia capabilities. It suits me. It suits me.

Dean: Absolutely.

Dan: I feel terrific about it, but it's a fascinating conversation. Again, like the who not how structure, this got created only because we decided to examine procrastination and why procrastination happens. One thing I'd like to do upcoming is just very quickly to go through the eight mindsets that make up the scorecard, that everybody procrastinates. It's a good thing that they do. It's triggered by their ambition and procrastination is an indication that you're being challenged to grow in terms of your understanding and your capability. We could cover all them just very, very quickly to see where each of us is with them, just to talk about what we've learned about them.

I'm not committing to any particular one but sometime in the next four or five, we would maybe in July because that'll be the two year anniversary-

Dean: I agree. That would be perfect.

Dan: The one thing that's merged is that I've lost all guilt about procrastination.

Dean: Me too. It's not even an issue.

Dan: I've lost all guilt about procrastination and at the same time, I expanded my appreciation of procrastination so I think that's a pretty good payoff for just a second to go deep on something.

Dean: Yes. I love it.

Dan: All right.

Dean: This is great. I'm so excited. I'm going to be ... I will see you on Saturday-

Dan: When do you leave for London? You leave for London on Saturday and then you're back-

Dean: No. I leave for Toronto on Friday, this Friday.

Dan: Right, this Friday.

Dean: This Friday. Hopefully if you're around, I'll see you on Saturday but I know we have our regularly scheduled but I'm hoping we can get two in while I'm there.

Dan: I will just schedule it and I'll see you Saturday at ... I'll be there a little after 11:00, but 11:30 is when they're officially open so I'll see you then.

Dean: Perfect. All right, Dan.

Dan: Take care.

Dean: Yeah, bye.

Dan: Bye.