Ep062: Wall of Procrastination

Join Dean and Dan as they face the wall of procrastination.




Transcript: The Joy of Procrastination Ep062

Dean: Mr. Sullivan.

Dan: I thought I'd let you get settled today, get comfortable in your seat, you know?

Dean: Okay. Yes.

Dan: I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait for him. I'm going to have the experience of waiting for Dan Sullivan.

Dean: I got to catch up on Rick Astley. It's an affirmation, really. When I am on, as you know, it's Rick Astley saying, "I'm never going to give you up. I'm never going to let you down." It's an affirmation that I just know that you're never going to give me up, you're never going to let me down.

Dan: No, no.

Dean: If I just stay on the line, you'll be here.

Dan: This is locked in. This is one of those experiences, one of those rare experiences in an unpredictable world that is just totally locked in.

Dean: That is it.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Well, I have been out in California since last time we spoke. I was out in Phoenix. It feels like we did not talk last week.

Dan: Nah, I was in Chicago. I was flying last Sunday.

Dean: That's right. That's right.

Dan: And, we were doing that. Not a 737. We weren't on a 737.

Dean: Well, that's good.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah.

Dean: I can tell you that.

Dan: Usually, I fly on one of those little Brazilian planes. You know?

Dean: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you fly from the island?

Dan: No, no. No.

Dean: That goes to Midway. Right.

Dan: I mean, whatever time I made up by flying out of Lake Toronto, you know from Billy Bishop here in Toronto. You would lose that at the other end, anyway.

Dean: Yeah. I gotcha. Well.

Dan: I like the airline. I like Porter. I think Porter's a good airline.

Dean: Yeah. I had a very fun couple of weeks here. I was out in Phoenix, we did an email mastery workshop.

Dan: I know you did.

Dean: It was at Joe's office, which was really great. And then, I went to Los Angeles, over by Marina Del Rey, and did Taki Moore's event, which was great. Those two groups, coaches on their way to a million dollars, and coaches who are over a million dollars. It was a fun weekend.

 We have a lot of Direct Procrastination listeners there.

Dan: Yes. Yep. I had three workshops last week. When was it, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Throughout all three workshops, there was mention of Joy of Procrastination. I made mention of it, because I have this new concept, which I think you're going to like, which is the bother thing that I've been talking about for several months, that 90% of any problem is that it bothers you.

Dean: Yes. I like that.

Dan: What I mean by that, there's something that you need to take action on. You know, there's an event, or you're in a situation, or there's circumstances where probably something new has happened, probably unexpected.

Dean: Yep.

Dan: And, eventually, you're going to have to do something about it. You're going to have to change course; you're going to have to learn something new. You're going to have to develop a new strategy, produce a new kind of result. You're paralyzed, and obviously, it's procrastination, but it's not procrastination because you don't have the right how. You're at a point where you're actually paralyzed because, emotionally, you're responding ineffectively or badly to the situation. In other words, you've put yourself into a bad psychological state, in response to the situation, and beating yourself up.

 The beating up is 90% of the problem.

Dean: That's interesting. What's the insight that you had from that?

Dan: Well, it's one of these things that you identified in the procrastination that led to such great breakthrough of who, not how. You said when I procrastinate, I have to say, "Oh, I'm procrastinating. That means I'm the who, who does the how."

Dean: That's right.

Dan: I have to find another who to do how.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: Okay, so what that identified for us, is that you have to develop an intellectual, psychological, and emotional muscle that stops you and says, "This procrastination is actually a good thing. This procrastination that's happening is really a good thing because it's telling me, based on my past experience, that I should not undertake the actions to get to the bigger and better goal."

 Bigger and better goal is great, but I now need other who's, who will help me with the how. This is a psychological. This is a new intellectual, psychological imaginative capability.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: What I'm saying with this thing of being bothered, and bother really has an emotional hit to it. Bother really means that you're isolated with a negative feeling. What I'm saying is, that's also telling you something and when it's telling you something, there's no explanation for it. You're just bothered.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: You say, "If I wasn't bothered, how would I handle this in the quickest fashion?"

 First of all, tell yourself you are bothered. In other words, I am bothered.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: I'm really bothered by this. It's like AA, you know? The great breakthrough with Alcoholics Anonymous, way back in the 1930s and 40s. This is Bill Wilson, and others, who put together the Alcoholics Anonymous organization. They said that step number one is you have to tell the truth. You have to tell the truth to start the process..

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: In the AA meetings, you have to stand up and say, "Hi, my name is."

 I'll use my name. "Hi, my name is Dan, and I'm an alcoholic."

 The reason why that's so crucial is because you're not saying that to yourself, is what makes it impossible for you to come to grips with your addiction, because you're not telling the truth, there’s no excuse. Oh yeah, I drink a little bit. You know? Everybody likes a good drink, every once in a while.

Dean: Yeah, who doesn't? Right.

Dan: Who doesn't? Why are you hassling me? You know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And, everything like that.

 The fact is, you're not just someone who drinks, you're actually an addicted alcoholic. You have to tell the truth about that. What I notice is that when people are bothered, one of the things that keeps them trapped with their bother, is they won't tell the truth, this really bothers me.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: No, I'm not saying, saying that to other people. I mean, saying that to yourself. You know, this really bothers me.

Dean: Right.

Dan: This really bothers me. And, that's telling the truth. Well, that's halfway solved if you tell the truth.

Dean: There's something interesting here, because this was years ago, I learned a concept from discussions with Thomas Leonard, about tolerations. It sounds like it's on the same family of things. It sounds like a precursor to bother, that it's something that you're tolerating. Meaning that, we're constantly barraged by all these things, if just are aware. Look around, and notice that there are a lot of things in our day to day that we are tolerating, because it's not yet to the point where it's bothering us. I think maybe that's the thing.

 It's a precursor to bother, and that I've just renewed my vigilance for looking for things that I'm tolerating. I think that the thing that really I've been focused on, this week especially, is a through put system to capture those tolerations.

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Dean: It's all vigilance. I started experimenting now with Siri commands for it. Saying to Siri, remind me, as a way of saying, I don't want to document this. This is bothering me, let's say.

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Dean: That this is something that's on there.

 I just took a little bit of time over the last few days to have an awareness of things, and train myself to say and get this list. Yesterday, just going through the day, I was getting in the hot tub. I thought, this hot tub cover is cracked and I need a new cover. It's not broken, it's not anything that's crucial. It's not to the point where it bothers me, but I'm tolerating it. It's not perfect. I would prefer if I could better it. This was my game for it.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I imagined if I could magically fix it, just like Samantha in Bewitched, just crinkle my nose and it be done, that these are the kind of things that I would fix instantly, if I had a magic wand for it. I start saying, "Hey Siri, remind me to get a new hot tub cover."

 As I'm sitting in the hot tub, I noticed that there was one of the little grills under the soffit outside, needs to be replaced. I noticed that there was another one around the corner. I said, "Hey, Siri. Remind me to replace the soffit grills."

 And, I'm just starting to pay attention. As soon as I say it, "Hey Siri."

 And then, remind me. I just need to know that remind me doesn't mean me. Let's get somebody. If I could just say it and have it done, that's the dream.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: If that now, I just need to figure out how to get that Siri list to them, email to Courtney, or to a master list of all the things that I need to replace.

Dan: Yeah, and you know, I know you and you've also done the print profile. You know, that identifies your subconscious drivers.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: What your subconscious drivers is.

 One of your numbers is that you like harmony.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: A cracked hot tub cover and something that's not quite functioning the way you want is a lack of harmony, and so you will be bothered by things that. You know, what I would say irritates your sense of harmony.

Dean: Yes, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about it like that.

Dan: No, no. I think everybody gets bothered by different things, depending on what their game is.

Dean: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: And, you have expectations. We all have expectations of how today's going to do. If it doesn't go in a very unpleasant way, doesn't go the way we want, then we're very bothered by that.

Dean: That's exactly right, Dan. We have high standards.

Dan: Well, that's how you create standards. You actually create standards by getting the hot tub cover fixed and getting everything harmonious. You just raised your standards. If you don't do that, it's irritating your present level of standards, but it's also you're saying, "I'm undermining my present level of standards by going along with this."

Dean: Yes, that's it. I'm tolerating it. That's a great thought.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The standards are coming down. It's one of the reasons why I love your movie reviews, when your movie reviews come. You're very picky, as a movie-goer. I mean, given what your Netflix is, I bet there's fortunes in Hollywood that have gone down on Friday afternoon, because you go to a movie on Friday afternoon, and you go say, "Ah, this is a dog. Don't bother."

 You know?

Dean: That's so funny. We've moved the needle.

Dan: Yeah, well, you do.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Somebody picks yours up, I mean, one person picks up your feed, and they pass it out to a hundred other people, that's not just a local uprising.

Dean: That's so funny. That's funny.

Dan: Yeah, but the bother thing is really, really interesting. If you can say to yourself, I'm bothered, the one thing here that I say, bother is just bother. If you try to track down why you're bothered, my feeling is you're going down an endless rabbit hole.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: You know, the only truth you can say is that this bothers me. Okay? If it didn't bother me, how would I handle this as quickly as possible? I'm going to give you an example that I had to do, because I had to write sample copies for the exercise that I introduced on Tuesday. Actually, Thursday of last week. Not this past Thursday, but the Thursday before.

 I was saying, okay, I put a title, so it's one of my cards that's got boxes. The title, that first column, this really bothers me. I used the words really bothers me. Okay? Because the word really bothers me is more important than saying just bother me. Something that really bothers you is being spotlighted.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: What really bothers me is typing out six pages of the Breakthrough booklet.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: Every quarter, I bring in a completely filled in Breakthrough booklet to show everybody I Strategic Coach, and the workshops that I coach, and also my team members what I'm up to for that quarter. I think it's a wonderful document. Everybody says they love seeing it. It does wonders of getting my projects into play, really early in the quarter.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: I hate typing it.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: I hate sitting there, hour after hour. I push it to the very last moment before it has to go in to get printed. It's usually on the Sunday before the first workshop. I hate the activity. I hate the activity.

 Being that, I think the reason why I can deal with this issue is that I've been so freed up in other areas of my life, from having to do this type of work. This one pops the top. I write down, I hate doing the typing for the Breakthrough booklet. And says, if this does not bother you, how would you handle it quickly?

 I said, "You know what I would do? I would use Otter AI."

 You know, the transcription service?

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: And, what I would I do, I'd just talk through all six forms, and I would give it to my production, my team leader in production, and she would have someone actually take the transcripts and the recordings, and fill in the forms.

 I wrote that down in the second column, walk from my café, the set up. I walk back to the production manager. I said, "Hey, I've got this thought. What do you think about that?"

 She said, "Oh, that'd be great. Just get the transcript to me, and the recording."

 She said, "We'll have it taken care of in no time."

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: In the third column is, the whos who do the hows that I hate.

Dean: Whos who do the hows that I hate.

Dan: Isn't that a great line?

Dean: Yes.

Dan: It's not that I don't like doing this that I hate.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, because hate has more truth to it, because I do hate it.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Don't say I don't like when you mean hate.

Dean: Yes, okay. Yeah, exactly. Don't candy coat. Right.

Dan: Yeah.

 The time that it takes me to type in counting time for procrastination breaks, is about seven hours to get six pages finished.

Dean: Wow.

Dan: I really have to gruel through it. I mean, it's grueling. On this one, I hadn't done this before. It took me a little bit to get used to the going through and just talking out the whole thing. It was an hour and 32 minutes total, total time. Total transcription time was just a little bit under an hour. And, I got through it. I just rolled through the whole thing. Monday morning, put it in. Five hours later, we had the completed document, completely filled. There were about three or four little adjustments that I had to go back over when I got back the document.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: I just handled it. Here's the thing, Dean. I don't know if you noticed that. If you have, in the past, committed yourself to doing something you don't like, if you’ve obligated yourself. You didn't commit. You obligated yourself to something you didn't like doing, your brain automatically extends that as far into the future as possible.

Dean: Yes. To amplify the mess.

Dan: In other words, what I mean, in my brain because I've locked it in, you always have to do the Breakthrough booklet. I plan to be doing workshops for the next 25 years. Part of my brain says, "Yeah, you're going to have to do this every quarter. 100 quarters into the future, this grueling activity. That's going to be part of your future."

Dean: Wow. Yes, and now it’s almost like you stopped looking. What your eyes only see, and your ears only hear what you're looking for, right?

Dan: Yeah. It wasn't just I freed myself up for this one event, I freed myself up from 100 events.

Dean: That's so great.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: You've who'ed up. Well, what did you did with the who's. How did you fill in that column? Whos who do the hows that I hate?

Dan: You know, Christine Aschino, she runs production for all materials I produce.

Dean: Yep.

Dan: And then, Carrie Morrison, who's my editor. She's the one who did all the transcriptions. The artist who made sure that the materials look right and everything's right. That, I just put their names down.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: The thing about it, immediately, I said since I actually like this activity, I might do it a couple of weeks earlier rather than wait until the last moment.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: Once you solve a bother, it's multi-mensional, the good reward you get from doing that.

Dean: Yes.

 Well, first of all, you got the psychic release of not having all that energy wrapped up in it.

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: Yeah, so-

Dean: And then, the practical time. You've got six extra hours.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Per incident.

Dan: Yeah, and, here's another insight I had, is that there's the actual time you free up. This is the activity time you free up.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: But, there's also the beforehand dread time that you free up.

Dean: Right, the time that you're avoiding it. That's the absolute truth.

Dan: Correct. I call it dread time. Dread time.

Dean: Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Dan: It's very interesting, though.

Dean: I wonder what the ratio of real time to dread time is, because it feels like it may be one to one, or even more.

Dan: Nah, I think it's about five to one.

Dean: Five to one? It's like an iceberg.

Dan: Yep. Yep.

Dean: The tip-

Dan: I think the amount of time you spend dreading and not acting is actually probably about five to one, when you actually get into it.

Dean: Yes. Yes. That's a pretty amazing breakthrough, right there.

Dan: Yep. It really hit home, because so many, the clients, they had this on their mind when it came into the workshop. You know? They were coming into their workshop to get clear about their next quarter. It's not necessarily true that they would have dealt with a bother that was really bothering them during the eight hours of the workshop.

Dean: Yes. Wow. It's kind of funny, Dan, that's been the focus that you had, and then for me to be thinking about the tolerations at the same time.

Dan: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dean: It's a little earlier in the process.

Dan: We're members of a resonant species, Dean.

Dean: I think you're right. Absolutely. Yeah.

 Well, you've already started now. This is what I miss about not being in Toronto for the first workshop.

Dan: First workshop.

Dean: For the first workshop, is that now it's already out there by the time I get to it. I've got a few more, probably a couple more weeks before I get up to Chicago.

Dan: Well, you'll probably tolerate this for a while.

Dean: I'll probably tolerate it. Yeah, and then figure it out.

Dan: Wow.

Dean: That's so funny.

Dan: You wouldn't solve it in winter.

Dean: No, that's true. Only in the summer. I'm going to come for workshop.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah, it might be a summer solution.

Dean: I'll be there for the first workshop in June, that's for sure.

Dan: Oh, good. That's good. Yeah.

 Anyway, that was really, really great. You know, I'm giving you a little preview. I'm giving you the trailers here.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Do you know, I came across something. This is, we're completely changing channels here, in the middle of the conversation.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: I had never zeroed in on this, and I was just fascinated. I spent about two and a half hours last night investigating this on the internet. It came up because we have Pandora. You know, music streaming service.

Dean: Yes. Yeah, I love that.

Dan: All of a sudden, I heard this song and it's the Ronettes, this group was Ronettes, and it was Be My Baby.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: I just really, really loved this song. I went to Wikipedia and looked up Ronettes. This was a number one hit song in the 1963, but there are all sorts of people being quoted, saying this is the number one pop hit song of all time. Not necessarily that everybody agrees with it, but this was the head of the Beach Boys, saying this: he's says that, "If I could have ever written a song like this, it would have been the greatest day in my life, this great song."

 It's just got a very, very compelling orchestration to it, and it's by a guy named Phil Specter. Do you know Phil Specter?

Dean: Yes, I do. He's a wall of sound, yeah.

Dan: Yeah. The wall of sound. I went to the Wall of Sound, and then there's whole documentary videos on the Wall of Sound, and everybody including the Beatles, and everybody made their visit to Phil Specter's studio. He said, "I consider the studio to be an instrument."

 It's actually a musical instrument, and I went into the whole thing. What delighted me, one, is that I never knew this. I never knew this. Then, I would listen and I listened to a session, where they had a session, it was about 10 minutes long, where he was putting it together, the song. One of the things is, that if you were in the studio and you were one of the musicians, it sounded like just a massive tornado of noise to you, because he had a lot of instruments.

 Actually, Sonny and Cher were back-up singers for that record.

Dean: Is that right?

Dan: Cher was 17 years old, yeah.

Dean: I didn't realize that.

Dan: Yeah, she was a back-up singer, so Sonny and Cher were there. And a lot of really top, top Hollywood musicians.

Dean: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: The context for why I'm telling you this, is that I heard something, and I was curious, and found out one thing, and that directed me to another thing, and then I found another thing, and went in and spent two and a half hours going into a world of understanding everything that I had never known. I said, "What a beautiful thing is, with the internet."

Dean: Oh, yeah.

Dan: You know, like YouTube, and Wikipedia, and Pandora.

Dean: Yes. Yes.

Dan: Pandora, if you approach it rightly- in other words, you say this is a really valuable set of capabilities I have, for someone like me, I was just so thankful at the end of the evening. I said, "I'm really thankful that I live in this world that I can do this."

Dean: Yes. It's so amazing. I was fascinated with Pandora, right from the very beginning. That was driven by what they were calling the Music Genome Project, where people would almost like check boxes. Have a male, acoustic guitar. All the similar things, so if you like this, you'll like this.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: But that's, I think, what you're almost saying, is that led to something similar like that, information-wise.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Like when you go down a vein.

Dan: You know, at the end, I discovered that he's been in California State Prison for the last 10 years for second degree murder. You know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: He killed somebody at his house in 2009. As far as I know, he's still in.

Dean: Yeah. Oh, you're saying you didn't even know that he existed up until last night?

Dan: No. I didn't know Phil Specter at all.

Dean: Oh, gotcha. Okay.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 You know, what was my life right then? I was scrambling right out of high school. I wasn't paying much attention to music or anything like that, you know? I was just blown away by the orchestration.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: The Wall of Sound thing. It was almost like symphony orchestra for rock and roll.

Dean: Yeah. Wow. That's interesting.

Dan: And then, George Martin. George Martin, of course, who really took the orchestration for the Beatles.

Dean: The Beatles.

Dan: Then, you listen to George Martin and while he was a classical musician and arranger, and everything else.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: But, you know, you don't know who influences who. There is some people that when they're successful, they give permission to a lot of other people to go forward with ideas that they previously had, but didn't really try out until they heard somebody make a breakthrough.

Dean: Yes. You know, I heard Donovan.

Dan: I love Donovan.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: I love Donovan.

Dean: That guy really struck me as a very, very thoughtful student of music.

Dan: Oh, yeah.

Dean: I mean, he was saying to Howard that he knows basically every form of music that there is, that he has studied. He has been in this. Howard was asking him whether he ever felt resentful that he didn't get the level of fame that the Beatles got, because he was a big influencer on the Beatles.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And, he was saying how he basically introduced all these minor chord progressions to The Beatles, and that was a shift.

Dan: Well, there's been a lot of renditions of The Beatles' music that's been put into other genres. One of it that lends itself very, very well to is Baroque, like Baroque music, the time of Bach.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: It's because of the minor chord progressions. Generally, modern music, popular music is all major progressions. Bach isn't Baroque music, which is still popular, it's timeless music, it's because of the minor progressions. Yes. Yeah.

Dean: That's interesting.  Right, right.

Dan: Eleanor Rigby, you know. You can put cello and a Baroque orchestra to it, and it sounds like it came out of these 1600s, 1700s. Yeah.

Dean: Well, Dan, just as an aside. I already know I'm giving this movie thumbs up, because it's the best premise for a movie that I've heard, maybe ever. It's a movie that's coming out called Yesterday. It's about a guy who was a musician and struggling, and was about to give up, he was hit by a car, at the exact moment when, for some reason, all the lights go out all over the world. When he goes into a coma, he comes out, and he's recovering. His girlfriend gives him a guitar, and they're at a picnic, and he starts playing Yesterday on this acoustic guitar.

 The girlfriend and everybody at the picnic is saying, "That's the most beautiful song I've ever heard. When did you write that one?"

 It turns out that he's the only person in the world that remembers The Beatles. He becomes this huge recording artist, because he's got all the songs that nobody's ever heard.

Dan: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Dean: I thought, what a great concept.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I mean, it proves one thing about innovation, that I often see. The greatest breakthroughs are where people develop their knowledge and skills in one universe, and then for one reason or another, they cross the boundaries and went into another universe. None of their originality was influenced by anything in this new universe.

 It's all original. You know? It just strikes people.

Dean: That's smart.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: That's smart.

Dan: Yeah.

 For example, the golden age of Broadway musicals is generally considered from around 1940 to probably 1970, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner and Loewe, Gershwin. George and Ira Gershwin.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: When you go back and study these people, a lot of them came from Europe and they were classically trained. Their whole future was to be classical musicians, composers, arrangers, and everything. But because of the troubles in Europe, they immigrated to the United States, and Americans just longed for classical music. Not as entertainment.

Dean: Right.

Dan: All of a sudden, what'd they do with that? They had to translate it into popular entertainment. They had these gorgeous, phenomenal musicals still, and everything. That just shows you.

 When you go to musicals now, there's nothing original about the people because they're trying to be like Rodgers and Hammerstein, or they're derivative. They're no longer original.

Dean: Right.

Dan: I haven't seen a good musical that matches up with my memory of great musicals in the last 25 years. You go, and you say, "Oh wow, yeah."

Dean: That may explain why Hamilton was such a hit, just from being an original.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: You know, coming from a different vein. Coming from hip-hop.

Dan: The hip hop.

Dean: Yeah, exactly.

Dan: Yep. Yeah. The subject matter was unusual.

Dean: Unusual, yeah. What a juxtaposition of this founding father, forgotten founding father, really, with the most contemporary music.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 I think you're absolutely right. Any time you do a switch over like that, you come across the line, none of us would cross. I mean, if you look at yourself, you look at me, you look at the other people we know in the entrepreneurial world, the other people you know in the marketing world, none of us intended this when we were 18, 19, 20 years old.

Dean: Right. Yeah. No, you're right. It evolved, right?

Dan: Well, no. We were out trying to make a living, and we tried this, and we tried that. I was going to go into theater. My great love was theater.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: I'm reflecting one day in the workshop, about a year ago. I said, "Well, I do have my theater."

Dean: That's true. Yes, that's true. You put on a new show every quarter, to a subscription.

Dan: I'm the producer, I'm the director, I'm the writer, I'm the performer.

Dean: The star. That's right.

Dan: I said, you know, it really struck me that desire, that early desire, worked it's way through all sorts of different circumstances.

Dean: That's funny. Yeah, Dan Sullivan in 118 quarters. That's amazing.

Dan: Yep. Yep. Yep.

Dean: That's pretty incredible. That's something.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I had breakfast with J. Abraham while I was out in LA. He's an interesting guy. He's had a lot of lives, as well. What struck me was, we were talking about Game Changer, and we were talking about my interpretation of my role now, as a venture collaborist. That was the conclusion he's come to, at this point, as well.

 He's 70, now. Just turned 70. That's been the biggest impact in his life, have been from the biggest collaborations like that.

Dan: Yeah. you know, when a lot of people start getting an idea at the same period of time, it means that there's been a tectonic shift in thinking. You know, I mean, everybody talks about inventions, like Edison with the light bulb?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Within about a 13 year period, there were about seven or eight inventors around the world who actually came up with the light bulb. Unbeknownst to each other. These were isolated inventors. They came up with it.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: It's probably because the world needed more light.

Dean: Yes. Yes, that's a great idea. That's funny.

Dan: No, and I think that collaboration venture is starting to occur to a lot of people, because the world needs a lot more of it.

Dean: And, it's certainly easier than ever, too.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: To organize these collaborations as one. You know? I mean, just the ability to be geographically irrelevant, and still be connected, effortlessly.

Dan: Yep. Yep.

Dean: Yeah. There's no better time for it than right now.

Dan: Yeah, and I'm really struck by how much my development of the Game Changer workshop is going much more quickly than my development of the Signature program, and the 10X program, because of Zoom, because of the Zoom technology.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: I have seven Zoom conferences scheduled in between 90 day workshops. You know?

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: We've got them scheduled 28 events out. We finish one quarter, and we put seven more in. You know, if you want to just check in with us for an hour, come on in, and we'll have a conference. We'll have a little Game Changer conference.

 My ideas really, really get developed much more quickly and more deeply through the quarter, because I have seven check in points. Probably seven meetings, and they encompass maybe 20 different people who are talking.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: Some of them come to three or four of them, and some don't come at all, but I can check out ideas. I'd say, "I've got this idea. I just wonder what you think of it."

 And then, we'll have a discussion for half an hour, an hour.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Now, I would say this, that my confidence about developing the program has been enhanced enormously by the fact that I have this technology, which I didn't have earlier in my coaching career. I didn't have that technology. Yeah.

Dean: And, I think there's something to that, where people are able to check in. I have a podcast that I do for our real estate agents, called Listing Agent Lifestyle. I did an episode yesterday- or, this past week. It was a new member, somebody who's new to GoGoAgent, but had been around and been listening to the podcast for almost a year. What was really interesting was, I've been doing within the podcast a little intermittent series, where I'm bringing Diane from my office, who runs our GoGoAgent client stuff. Now, we're running our programs, our Getting Listings program, our World's Most Interesting Postcard, all that stuff, with her as a real estate agent, and documenting everything.

 I've had her come on, maybe once every six weeks. We do recap of what's been happening since we've been implementing all the stuff. It's getting to the point where all the things are coming to fruition now. All these listings are coming out. Things are happening now. All the seeds that we planted months ago are now being harvested. What this gentleman said that was a real light bulb for him, was that he's been listening since before we introduced Diane to the podcast.

Dan: Wow.

Dean: He's been watching all of this, and he knew about these things, and he didn't do it. Yet, here we are, we started since after he knew about it. We started with Diane, we started documenting what's happening, and now she's getting all the results, and he wasn't because he didn't do it.

Dan: Yes.

Dean: It could have been him.

Dan: Yes.

Dean: That's an interesting thing, that there's something about really documenting as you're going, as the ultimate motivator, I guess, for people. Right? They're either going to voyeur in and see other people get the results, or they're going to jump on board.

Dan: Yeah, and that brings us back to the beginning here. Why don't people take action when they're convinced, but they're not compelled?

Dean: Yes. Yeah. Say more about that.

Dan: I think it's because they're bothered about something. You know?

Dean: Oh, yeah.

Dan: You know, I mean, first of all, it might be a who, not how obstacle that they're running.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: In your case, that wouldn't be the case, would it? Doesn't it require another how for them to move forward on this?

Dean: Well, this is part of the thing, is that either we show them exactly what to do, and how to do it themselves, or we have an easy button program that they can just push the easy button. That requires a little money. You either get to the point where that combination of your time, if you’ve got it, and I'm just looking and observing at how people treat themselves with money. Whether they're coming from a scarcity standpoint, or a conservation standpoint, as a multiplier.

Dan: Yeah, whether it's cost or an investment.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I think that's the real divider. If I look at myself, compared with, let's say, other members of my family. Everything that I have invested in my life and saw it as an investment, would be a real cost in their thinking. You know? Oh, that cost a lot. And, that cost a lot. I remember, I had one of my family members came for the first time, and actually saw the office here in Toronto, and all the team. We're on three floors, and there's 80 people.

 Afterwards, her first thought was, boy, that's a fantastic cost, isn't it?

Dean: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Dan: I said, "I have to tell you. This is the first time this year that I've thought of my team and my office as a cost."

 I don't see it as a cost at all. It's just a really, really great investment that keeps paying, and paying, and paying back, and everything.

Dean: Right. Right.

Dan: Yeah. I said, "Oh, wow. Wow."

 I said, "Cost. Cost. Cost. No, I can't say I see that as a cost."

 Right there, you know the vast majority of the world sees what Dean and Dan look at as investment, they see it as a cost.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: An investment, it's either going to be a good investment or a bad investment. You know? You hope you're smart enough to check it out. You're doing due diligence before you go into it. But, that's just for all investments. People are investments, technology's investment. Everything's investment.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Trial and error. Positive experience, negative experience. You start getting smarter about what constitutes, and how far to go in.

Dean: Mm-hmm.

Dan: Do you make a big investment or do you just make a little investment to test out the trail, and everything else. I think it probably has a lot to do with whether they would see anything of investing in themselves, as an investment, or they see it as a cost.

Dean: I think you're right. It's funny. Joe and I, Joe Polish and I, had David Bach on our Isle Of Marketing podcast last week. He's got a new book coming out, called The Latte Factor.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: He sent us an advance copy. It's amazing, like really well done. It's a parable.

Dan: I wrote a testimonial for it.

Dean: Oh, perfect. Okay, good.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Which was fitting, because in Strategic Coaches, where the first thought for the automatic, or women finish rich, came from.

Dan: Yeah, that's where he developed it. Yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: We talked about that on the podcast, actually. I thought his idea of you're richer than you think, as a concept of just looking at all the money that you're actually just frivolously spending, that you could reallocate for other things, and what a difference it actually makes. I started thinking about that for our 10 minute units, that there's so many of these that we're going through our time, with so many that we waste, and so many that we frivolously spend.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: It's been a fun week. I've been going through the week, consciously trying, and I can't get through a full day with this yet, but I try and bring my attention back to it. I'm trying to go through a couple of days, or at least periods of time, where I'm consciously thinking with a metronome, going through with this 10 minute thinking, that each beat is a 10 minute Jackson.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I find it really helps in the transitions. If I have this awareness of things, there's often things where you can mindlessly get sucked into what could be an hour or more of just surfing online, or going on a loop of things. Just bringing it back to having this awareness where I can set an intention for a future. Like, okay, 10 more minutes, and then I'm going to do this.

I've been getting my time telling abilities better, to be able to know how long does it take to do certain things. I know now to schedule my podcasts, when I schedule things, I know that two units is a luxurious amount of time to eat a Fuji apple salad from Panera. If I get the salad, and I'm there, then 20 minutes is a great amount of time for that. 10 minutes is a little bit rushed, but 20 is a perfectly relaxed, gentlemanly pace to eat your Fuji apple salad.

Dan: It's a double pleasure, because first of all, it's a Fiji apple salad from Panera.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: The other thing is, it's the knowing that you just have experienced two extraordinarily well spent Jacksons.

Dean: Yes, that's exactly right. That's exactly what I mean, is that there's the thing that is consciously spending those. A lot of our time during the day, I would say, is not consciously invested, or spent.

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Dean: Yep.

That's what this metronomic thinking has been helpful with, is thinking about it, like, having the metronome that, dink, dink, dink, dink. 100 of these 10 minute units during the day.

Dan: Yeah, you know, Dean, the thing that for entrepreneurs, time is an infinitely explorable universe. In other words, my feeling is that time is something that's created.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: If you think about it, newborn babies don't have a time sense. They have a stomach sense, but they don't have a time sense. You know?

Dean: Yes. Yes.

Dan: Time is gradually something that they get ahold of, that there was something that happened before they went to bed to sleep last night. They call them dark sleeps. Dark sleeps. There's light sleeps, which are naps, and dark sleeps, which are sleeping through the night.

Dean: Okay, yes.

Dan: And that there was a yesterday, a today, and a tomorrow. For the most part, people who work in the, more or less, bureaucratic worlds, and so much of modern life is bureaucratic, time is a very, very minimum dimension realm. In other words, it's more or less imposed on you and you don't really have any say over how you experience time. What we're showing in the entrepreneurial world is that, actually, you can do all sorts of things with time.

 You don't have to accept the hour as the unit. You can take the hour and break it into six parts, and say I'm going to each one of those a Jackson.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And, hours. Hours, you have a scarcity of them, but Jacksons, you're always going to have an abundance of them.

Dean: That's true. You're absolutely right.

Dan: I'm just noticing the entrepreneurial freedom that comes around time, simply because you have taken the risk of not depending on a bureaucratic way of having your income guaranteed. You know? Or, having someone else design this structure and processes of your daily life, but simply taking on the responsibility of doing that for yourself.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Yeah. I think that's the whole topic, sometimes.

Dean: Yeah, I think I'm going to map my time awareness. I'll continue that, and then maybe next time, I can share my findings, and we can have a discussion from there.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah, because I'm very definitely aware of the enormous elasticity and flexibility since we've started this podcast series.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: My whole sense of time of comparing your notes with my notes, all of a sudden, I'm seeing all sorts of cupboards.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: In the space that I had, and in the back of every cupboard, there's a doorway that goes into a whole new set of rooms.

Dean: Yes. Yes, yes. That's good.

Dan: I thought I had a pretty decent, six room house, but now it turns out that I just wasn't inquisitive enough.

Dean: What's this? That's so funny.

Dan: Where's this go? You know, I better take a ball of twine with me, so I can find my way back. You know?

Dean: Babs, hold this end. I'll be back.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 Anyway, but I think Alice in Wonderland was a lot about that.

Dean: Right.

Dan: I've been reading some sections. He was really playing around with time a lot. Anyway, this has been a well spent six Jacksons.

Dean: I think you're absolutely right. Well, there we have it.

Dan: All right.

Dean: We have a massage therapist in the other room, waiting. This is great.

Dan: Yes, and I have a date with you for two weeks because next week, I'll be en route to New York City, where we are seeing the first workshop version of Jeff Madoff's new musical.

Dean: Oh, wow.

Dan: Personality, the name of the show, and we're investors in it.

Dean: Yes, I remember.

Dan: Not this Wednesday, but the next week after go there. We're going there. Jeff told us, and we said we'll invest, so we invested.

Dean: We're in.

Dan: This is now, this is the first run through with costumes and music, and everything like that.

Dean: Oh, that's so great.

Dan: Yep. Yeah. Really great.

Dean: Awesome. Well, have fun and then I will talk to you when you're back.

Dan: Okay.

Dean: Thanks, Dan.

Dan: Take care, Dean.

Dean: Bye.