Join Dean and Dan as the look into the intelligence of procrastination.
Transcript: The Joy of Procrastination Ep057
Dean: Mr. Sullivan.
Dan: Mr. Jackson. I have a question for you.
Dean: Tell me.
Dan: I had never picked up on this, but when your conference service welcomes me in, they all say others haven't joined yet. I have this feeling that there have been other people involved in this whole podcast thing that have never been introduced to me. I know you constitute one other, but you are not others.
Dean: That's true. That is funny. Yes. Well, it's just us right now.
Dan: All right.
Dean: That's the important factor.
Dan: Yeah. In the mainland world that you defined tremendous distinction for people to look at their reality in the 21st century between the mainland world and the Cloudlandia world. Mainland world you can usually figure out quite quickly whether others were involved, but in the Cloudlandia world, it's almost impossible to know whether other people are involved.
Dean: They may be AI. Yeah, it may not even be real people. There may be others, but not human others maybe. There's a confluence of amazing things that are happening right now. I don't know whether I've shared this with you, but I'm going to put it out there because I'm getting the itch to do it. Where do I start? When I found out about ghost restaurants ... Have I shared that with you?
Dean: This idea. Just briefly in case somebody hasn't heard me talk about it that there is a venture-funded group in New York and Chicago that has perfected this idea of restaurants that only exists on Grubhub and Seamless, the food delivery apps.
The article that I read was titled, "Nine Restaurants, One Kitchen, No Dining Room." They all run out of the same commissary kitchen and they don't have any physical presence. They only are in Cloudlandia. I thought that's a pretty interesting concept because you get most people now. We've solved the last mile problem where you can get anything now delivered right to your door, so why not? Now, we've got the app to deploy people to come and pick up your food and bring it right to you.
Eben Pagan has a great site that he's investing or starting called futurescope.com. They curate articles that bring really cool things of interest all with the near term future. Things in AI and robotics and all the things that we talk about in Abundance 360, Peter Diamandis' community there.
Now, I saw there was a new advance in AI where they're making photographs of people that don't exist. They're taking amalgams of lots of features from thousands of people and then combining them uniquely to create photorealistic portraits of people, AI-generated people that don't exist. I thought they're spooky in a way because they look like real people, but there is no real person that is this person.
Then I've been thinking ever since I heard the ghost restaurant idea about that you could create a ghost real estate situation like that. I thought, "What if I get a dot-com available, first and last name combination that doesn't exist?" Create somebody, take a first name and a last name, combine them.
Let's say ashleyanderson.com, which maybe doesn't have anybody at it right now and register that as a DBA, Ashley Anderson team and set them up as a real estate team with an avatar of what are these people that don't exist and then document the process of turning Ashley Anderson into the top real estate agent in a marketplace. As a realtor who doesn't exist.
We're coming into a world where all of these things now, all the elements of it are possible. There's AI now where you can ... If it has 10 minutes of your voice talking, it can create a voice automation process that will turn written text into spoken word in your voice. With your voice inflection. The same thing is happening with video.
Dan: What's the name of that AI?
Dean: I don't know what it is. I saw a demonstration of it at a conference where somebody had given a speech and it had captured their voice for the 20 minutes of the speech or whatever and then it was reproducing that person's voice and inflection and tone with written words and they were doing in the comical way. Things that they would never say kind of thing. To how you could get it, that soundbites of spoken in your voice.
There was, recently also, a big kerfuffle with the Wonder Woman actress, Gal Gadot. Somebody had created a porn movie with a body double and digitized her face in the actress' face in the place of it, so it looked like a porn movie with Gal Gadot.
That used the same technology as they used in The Fast and the Furious movie when one of the lead actors died. They used his brother as a body stand-in and digitized because they had his facial features and things from all his ... He was in all the other movies. You think about, wow, all of these things that you can orchestrate and create within Cloudlandia that could really ... You have the ability to turn something that doesn't exist into something that for all intents of purposes is real. Real with a small R, but real.
Dan: Yeah. It's interesting, because I think that there's a natural tendency in the human brain to actually take reality and divide it into two parts. What we're referring here is the division between that part of life which is the mainland and that part of life which is this new world where you can create things and pass them up more or less as being real-world reality when in fact they're digitally contrived.
Dan: Here's my thought about that. I think that being challenged with the fact that what might be watching or experiencing digitally we're not quite sure whether what we're dealing with in a real way we're actually guarding ourselves and protecting ourselves from this digital experience by getting more knowledge about what really constitutes a real-world experience in the real world.
Dean: Yeah. You're absolutely right that there's so ... In a lot of ways, does it matter?
Dan: Well, to a certain extent, it must have been because I've had this ongoing discussion with Peter Diamandis on the podcast series that we have called Exponential Wisdom where I've said this thing about virtual reality. It's not a new thing, it actually goes back to the first convincing storyteller around some campfire and some cage 10,000 years ago that everybody gets together around the campfire because this person has a way of telling stories that get the listeners to forget where they are in their interim of their own imagination.
That seems to me like virtual reality that the storyteller has used some words and perhaps music or signing actually snaps people out of the real-world experience they have and they go into an imaginary world. My sense is that we've just added means of doing that over the last 10,000 years. I use 10,000 years because our period of history seems to date back to the end of the last Ice Age, which lasted a long time. Geologically, we can say that Ice Age has last a lot longer than non-Ice Ages.
The history that we talk about is being history really goes back to the end of the last Ice Age. There's been a steady growth in our ability to transport people including drugs. By the way, drugs is one of the way that we get people to go into a world of certainly altered reality. Is this a difference of kind or a difference of degree what you're talking about now?
Dean: Yeah. I'm not sure I understand the distinction.
Dan: Well, a difference of kind is that this is an abrupt jump to something that we have no experience for, or is it just a continuation adding some more digital tools or digital tricks.
Dean: Oh, yeah. I think it's a nice continuation. I think it's just an evolution. I start to become hyper aware of how I'm interacting with things or watching things unfold. I look at my relationship with Alexa as the barometer of that in a while. You see now where voice is really going to become a big thing.
I started out, I have an Alexa, an Amazon Echo in my kitchen that I got the larger one. It's really a great sound system. I've started out using it as a music conjuring tube that you could literally it's hooked up to my Amazon Prime account, which gives you unlimited music. Literally, I can just conjure music with my voice by saying, "Alexa, play Dave Brubeck." All of a sudden, my kitchen has jazz music coming right out of my music conjuring tube.
As primitive as the use of it was, then I started catching on that she's actually hooked up to the Internet and I can start acting asking her facts. I was finding myself would be sitting in the living room watching a TV show. We're watching something with some movie and our TV show and Alan Alda was on and was thinking, "Boy, he looks great. I wonder how old he is." Then I just yell out, "Alexa, how old is Alan Alda?" She comes back, "Alan Alda is 84 years old."
It was just like now to instantly conjure from the air anything that's known available just with my voice is really an amazing thing. The only thing that limits it. I didn't figure this up. Luba figured it out how to hook up our Christmas tree lights to the Alexa so we could say, "Alexa, turn the Christmas tree lights on." She would turn the lights on and say, "Okay." Instantly, the lights are on and then tell her to turn them off.
It's only limited by my ability to sit down and think through these. They call them Alexa skills that you can program to do, but you can order things from Amazon. You start to think now what's this possibility when you start to see how all of these voice-activated things are really going to change our world.
You and I, Dan, have the easiest way of doing a podcast ever. I'm going to say I'm going to go out on a limb and say that of all the podcast you create, the podcast that you and I do requires the very least involvement of your time or thought, because literally ...
Dan: Yeah. I would say I have the easier of the two because I have the foggiest idea of what happens except I dial a number. I plugged into a conference and when we get to the end, you say, "Well, see you next time." I say, "See you next time."
Dean: Yeah, I was laughing because this week you were talking about how you have eight podcasters and on average they take two hours of your time. I was thinking, "Well, not ours. He's not speaking about ours." Paul, a colleague, I presented my dream to him at the last, a year ago, annual event. I suggested that what I would like is a truly hands-free, no human involved podcast platform for people to use.
We called it dial, talk, done. I was with Paul in Phoenix at Genius Network with Joe. He presented to me. Now, I have on my phone an app where it's set up to a Siri command that I can completely podcast with three voice commands right now. A podcast for just me. We set up a podcast called Thinking Out Loud with Dean Jackson and it's on iTunes right now.
It's for me to do short just thoughts, sound things that if I'm out in the field or I'm with somebody and I want to record something while I'm out that I just say, my voice command is, "Hey Siri, let's podcast." I'll say it quietly so that doesn't activate on my phone here while we're talking. All I have to say is those words, and it automatically then brings up and starts this app that's on my phone, the shortcut that all I do is I push a button.
As soon as I push that button, it starts recording. I record whatever it is I'm going to say for ... I went out on one of the breaks at Genius Network and I just walked around the building and I recorded a four and a half minute podcast about the psychology of referrals, because Michael Bernoff had asked me something about referrals.
I recorded that podcast and then as soon as I push the button, it prompts me what's the title and I said, "Psychology of Referrals," then what's the description. This is how referrals actually happen. I push the button and it's done and it automatically goes through all the processes of sending the audio to get balance and adds noise canceling and then adds the ... We have this little tone or music for the beginning and the end and sends it to Libsyn and puts it up in iTunes within minutes.
On one break at Genius Network, I walked out, recorded a podcast, walked back in. By the time I sat down in my seat, it's already up on iTunes. That was just magic. Then at lunch that day, we had a situation where I had recorded that for Michael and he hadn't had a chance to listen to it yet.
We had a situation where somebody was asking about a restaurant recommendation and Michael jumped into action, took the whole thing under control for the guys that I got your place, I was recommended Sushi Roku in Scottsdale and texted. He knows the general manager, so he texted the GM and said, "Hey, can you make a reservation for eight people and give them the double royal treatment?" And all of this, which demonstrated exactly how referrals happen.
At the break in the afternoon, I brought Michael over and we sat down at a table and I just pushed the ... He said, "Hey Siri, let's podcast." Did the same thing, recorded a podcast about that interaction with Michael and we're done and now there's two podcasts up there with zero delays, zero friction. It's just like that kind of thing where what used to take people and time and delay and cause procrastination is now instantly removed because of all of these things. I just see how these advances, if we really embrace them, are eliminating the procrastination out of things.
Dan: Well, I want to make a distinction here. You have a particular feel for this, and a particular passion for it. In fact, what you're doing is you're using the digital world to actually increase an unfair advantage that you have in the mainland.
Dean: Say more about that.
Dan: Well, I'm just saying that you're actually fundamentally an evil person thing.
Dean: Fundamentally, an evil in the best sense. Yes.
Dan: Charmingly evil, but still. What I mean is that you have a particular feel for this, it just didn't start in the recent past. It goes back to 3rd grade, when you were a 3rd grader that you're constantly on the outlook. I'll use your own words here. I think your constant outlook, "How do I eliminate the friction between where I am and the results I see in the future?"
It does not exist yet. I would say that this is very, very much at the very center of your totally unique ability on that you have a feel for this. You've been intact pursuing it for more than half a century if the truth were told on it. Have you been alive.
Dean: It's probably true. 52 years old now.
Dan: 52, well, that's pushing a little.
Dean: I'm 22 years younger than you.
Dan: Yeah. My sense is that this points out a fact of a vast increase in the inequality in the world that people are perceiving is because certain mainland individuals have discovered an almost unlimited resource for growing their non-friction life in other words.
What I mean by non-friction life, I mean you have a thing called dial, talk and done, but the figure model that we're talking about is visualize it, do it, done. In other words, the moment you visualize something, you're actually doing it and it's share. Visualize, do it, share.
My sense is, what I'm getting from this is that someone listening to what you just described that you have created another breakthrough for yourself experiences that as, "Geez, that makes me feel even worse than I did before." They will interpret this and all the hows they have to do to match what you just did. That's the inequality about it is that you ... In this case, you're using a technological who or a series of technological whos to actually get the how that you're actually looking for.
Dean: It does absolutely. I have no idea about using how those technologies all work together. If you really take it back to the root here then that I enlisted the help of a knowledgeable who to who did it, Paul Colligan. I don't know how to put all these things together.
It took this long to really get to a point where to truly eliminate all the friction and it's just been recently that the final pieces of the puzzle to make that happen, there can't be any less friction than what there is right now. I mean unless what you're talking about. That's the next level that it's automatically there. Pretty amazing though.
Dan: Yeah, it is. I was just reading yesterday an article in the weekend Wall Street Journal. I still have two newspapers.
Dan: Three actually. I get the post here from Toronto. Toronto is unusual in having four daily newspapers. My favorite is The Post, National Post. We get that and then I get the Wall Street Journal. Then on Saturday, I also get Investor’s Business Daily. I get their weekend. I'm still a paper guy. I stay in touch with the paper world. On Sunday, we get the New York Times, the big one a half a tree was cut down.
Dean: Delivered with a forklift.
Dan: Yeah. Bob reads that. I find is mostly kind of a negative, pessimistic paper. I don't get a lot of value out of that. The Wall Street Journal on Saturday is one of the best written newspaper in the world and it's got one section, which is called Exchange. Exchange is really about the financial market, but it got a lot of context.
They have a whole section on how we may be approaching now the saturation point for cellphones, for iPhones. It was like 11 and a half years ago that Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone. Now, for the first time, iPhone has had a lesser quarter than all quarters before that. This is the first time that they've had a drop in sales in the last quarter.
What it's suggesting is that their position of being able to infinitely charge premium prices for their iPhone is probably over. That enough knock-offs have been created now, especially coming out of China. There will be more iPhones or cellphones sold in the future, but they're not going to get the profits out of them. The prices go down. They said it may also indicate that it's no longer a special technology that amazes us anymore. Your story here about using Alexa may be indicating the direction that things are actually going.
Dean: I think that's true.
Dan: The next great breakthrough is not cellphone-enabled, but it's something else. It's something else that's not entirely clear what the next thing might be.
Dean: Well, I was thinking back about If you look at the state of the smartphones right now that we've reached this consensus that the smartphone is an ultra thin, rectangular, all-screen device that is just a carrier to access the software, the screen, the images, the touch stuff that's on the thing as a remote control to get to Cloudlandia. Now, what Apple did brilliantly and I thought about this. I think it probably ended maybe the current state. There hasn't been any exciting developments from Apple in quite sometime.
Dan: Probably since Steve Jobs died.
Dean: Well, that's true, but I think that people say that ... I think unfortunately, there's a little bit of it's not that Steve Jobs died, it's that we have a unique period of time between 1998 and 2008 was a unique time in history where what Steve Jobs did was essentially ride to their crest, a series of asymptotic curves that were just progressing to ride, catapult the exponential part of a curve to the very ... Sort of the tippe top of it where now it's gotten to the asymptotic part of the curve where it starts to level out.
When he came on board and organized Apple, simplified their computer offerings to desktop and laptop. Basically, notebooks. Then rode the immediate curve of the iMac of everybody. The thing that was the crest of the wave was everybody was getting online. That's where they rode that iMac wave.
Then as soon as everybody is online, the next development, if we look at the cascading, exponential improvement here was music. All the MP3s, music was in that exponential, now that steepest part, the explosive part of the curve where music was quickly becoming a viable digital experience. Then here comes the iPod to organize and iTunes to organize all of this music into one place.
Then the smartphone in 2006 where now the Internet and bandwidth and cellular data transfer was at that exponential acceleration part of the curve. By the way, none of these had that happened in that order. None of these things could have happened any earlier and out of order with that. Then the iPad became the next thing, and that's really where it ends. Now, we're pretty much at the point where all these things are.
Dan: Yeah. I think that the connector direction, probably the bridging out from that is the millions of apps where he actually invited the general public to get involved in creating something useful for the platform. My sense is that, that in itself, is It's not so much technological, but social and economic. Now, instead of people passively enjoying the benefits of the technology, they're now being encouraged to become creative contributors to the ecosystem.
Dean: That's it. You look at now.
Dan: To actually create the ecosystem.
Dean: You look at the biggest companies now. Facebook, Uber, Airbnb, Grubhub, Seamless, all these things are apps. They're apps that exist on the iPhone. That's really the way that It's kind of like that ecosystem you're talking about that these created, has made it all possible.
Not to discount in any way the brilliance of what Steve Jobs did, but was just that it was a uniquely poised time in history where the crest of these exponential waves were all reaching the tippe top. I don't know what's next.
I think about you back in the 70s hitching your wagon as rightfully so of watching the impact of the microchip on society. I think that if we look at the next 40 years, if that's really about how long it was that you had been on that, what's your observation of what the ... Do you see anything that you're thinking will have a bigger impact over the next 40 years?
Dan: I've been talking about this for probably the last six months just in smart board form. We'll all just go up to the smart board and I'll draw something. What I'm drawing is three bubbles. I picture them as there boxes wider than they are higher. I said it seems to me that the world we're living in, and it reflects our conversation here from the podcast, that it's very, very clear that we have a layer of our life right now that's called technology and it's clear that it's exponential technology. We have ample proofs that this is exponential. As a matter of fact, the word exponential has really come to us because of our experience of accelerating technology.
I said at the same time, the whole world previous to this modern technology, the digital technology of the last 40 years, we got here because of something that happened in the gravitation rolled world. Our mainland that we call a team that there's always been an exponential. The greatest places on the planet is where this exponential happened. That's teamwork. Those places which were best at teamwork, and I think the United States, the country of America is the greatest teamwork country that's ever existed.
It seems to me that this continues to happen. Teamwork isn't as perceptible to people because we're kind of in it. It's the rare human being who isn't involved in some sort of teamwork, he's probably on solitary at a maximum security prison. It's 5000 feet down in a mine in Colorado. That person is not involved in teamwork, but generally, everybody on a daily basis is involved in teamwork, which is like fish with water. They're swimming in it but they actually have never occurred to them that there's a thing called water, because where were they ever not in water that they could know what water is.
I'm very cognizant of the fact that just the person who has a job in the City of Toronto is involved in hundreds of different kinds of teamwork that they don't even think about. We who are entrepreneurs probably are more conscious than most about what teamwork actually means.
That's the second level. The top level, you have exponential technology. The bottom level is exponential teamwork. What I'm seeing is that these two worlds are not connected with each other. They operate more or less obviously of each other, because each has its own fascination and each has its completely different community. He's working at it.
What's in the middle is a new stage. This is partially self-serving on my part, but I believe that I would share this with the entire world, the principles of it that the third level, which is actually the middle level is coaching.
The most powerful integrator, human integrator in the 21st century as management was in the late 19th and 20th century, so that coaching will be the 21st century going forward as management was to the 20th century going backwards. In other words, you can go back to history where management became the crucial thing.
Essentially, it required a high degree of teaching people how to conform so that you could connect teamwork with big, big industrial capabilities like factories and steel mills and everything like that. That's why when you look at the wars of the 20th century, First World War, Second World War, and then the wars that followed, the populations were made to conform.
The films we have of millions of people going into battle in the First World War. How they got humans to conform, even one that was a slaughterhouse. They could still get people to go into that. You couldn't get people to do that today. There would be mutinies before. I think that started to happen in the '60s with the Vietnam War. The tolerance for being a conformist and being marched up to your death. I don't think so.
Dean: Not for me. Yeah.
Dan: I have to go to the restroom. Excuse me.
Dean: I'll be right back.
Dan: I hope there's a window in the restroom that connects to the alley so that I can get out of here. My sense is that the switch now is to individualism as a way from conformity. Those who will profit most by this new framework is ingenious individualism. I think that this is becoming the dominant human as opposed to the conformist, the industrial conformist of the previous century. Now, we're being rewarded for being ingenious individuals. You can't manage that, but you can coach it. That's the distinction I'm making here.
Dean: That's interesting.
Dan: That's my take on those. I think that you are at your most fascinated and most motivated when you are in your coaching role. The Breakthrough Blueprint is obviously a great coaching role, but I think that there are many other avenues for you to be a great coach. I think the podcast series that you and Joe do together, I Love Marketing, that's a pure coaching medium. My sense is that you're just a natural-born coach. What you've coached is how to get the friction between you and the results that you're actually trying to achieve.
Dean: Yeah. That's true. It is fascinating and motivating.
Dan: Yeah. You use technology so you combine new uses of technology, exponential technology to create new kinds of teamwork and you're the coach who allows people to do that. If their use of technology is truly a breakthrough for them, it will show up with their increased stability to have teamwork with humans on the mainland.
Dean: Yes. Yeah, because we're certainly able. People are organizing all of this now where you can tap into anything on demand. We were just with Nick Sonnenberg in Phoenix, Joe and I. Met with him yesterday from Get Leverage that, that's an example of someone who's organizing as a who all of the other whos that can do all the things that anybody can imagine. I think imagination is really what the ... That's the required ingredient I guess.
Dan: I think that's imagination. I think it's imagination and aspiration. You can have imagination without aspiration. I can imagine all sorts of things, but I don't necessarily aspire to any of them. It's the ones we go from imagination to aspiration. I want that. I have to have that. That's always the key. My feeling is the exponentials. The true exponential that drives everything on the planet is human aspiration.
Dean: Yeah, I think I'm seeing that now that I don't think we necessarily even need to use the word exponential in front of technology anymore. I think we've really reached ... Whenever I say things like we've actually reached the pinnacle and things, I'm always conscious of being the patent office clerk saying everything that could possibly be invented has been invented already.
It's just from this vantage point, seems like the functional, exponentials of technology have really arrived. We're there now, right? For all these years from 1972 till now, it's taken that amount of time for the exponential curve to reach this foreseeable. You could see the future of what could come from 1972, but I just wonder now that we switched. It's now, the exponential is really going to be the ability for humans to catch up to what's actually possible with their imagination and aspiration.
Dan: Yeah. I think that's what's been driving it all along is imagination and aspiration. There was a kind of foolishness. I think it happens when you create new things that now the new thing is dominant over human experience. All the silliness around singularity and artificial intelligence and everything like that.
I remember the first time I saw Ray Kurzweil in Silicon Valley and he was talking about the singularity and the artificial intelligence getting smarter than the human race. I wrote down a line, I said, "Humanity is always infinitely greater than anything that humanity craves."
What I mean by humanity is exactly what we're talking here about this ability for individuals to uniquely imagine and uniquely aspire is always increasing much more greatly than any capability that develops in response to that. We're always light years ahead of our actual ability to actually have the function that's actually going to allow us to move forward. I think that's why a lot of people get mentally unbalanced and why they become drug addicted because of this enormous frustration that they can't actually experience what they can imagine.
Dean: Yeah. It's such exciting times right now.
Dan: Yeah. This is where being well grounded in the mainland and actually understand that these new laws of technology still have not undone the old laws of gravity.
Dean: That is true. Absolutely. Yeah. You do think about that some of the things that really are going to be the things that are mainland are forever going to be mainland. That's the thing. You can't exponential or technologize our way out of that reality, because that is we are, for lack of a better word, grounded in the reality of the mainland.
Dan: Some people more so or less so than others. Psychologically, emotionally, intellectually. I know some people that the old rules are suspended. Well, they're not suspended. You can learn something from the Cloudlandia world. In other words, because what I think about Cloudlandia, actually assists us with, is channel the focused imagination and aspiration that you really can't do on the mainland.
To a certain extent, it was only because of the conversation a year ago between you and Paul that you were able to imagine and aspire to having the Siri triggered capability that you now have and you had to have Siri available as an enabling technology for that to happen. That's a Cloudlandia capability, but without that, you could not have that capability right now. If you had tried to do it in the mainland, it would be meaningless in the mainland. That had to be in Cloudlandia where you actually get that.
Dean: Yes. Very exciting. Do you have workshops coming up this week?
Dan: Yeah. This is the end of my quarters that started in the first week of December. I think my final one is on Thursday this week. Then I have about six weeks of non-workshop in which we'll go to Abundance 360 and then I'll go to Jeff Gladden's clinic in Dallas and then I'll go to Genius Network in Phoenix. Then I'll go to Canyon Ranch in Tucson, it's a four stop.
Dan: Then we're back and then I've got about two weeks to start the next quarter for 10 times in for the Game Changer.
Dean: I like it. What was your insight this quarter from the beginning to the end? Because you were introducing the theme of this one was along with your book, Who Not How. What was the evolution after now presenting it to ... How many workshops did you do with that theme from the beginning? 15?
Dan: No, 12.
Dean: 12 workshops.
Dan: 12 workshops and then two Game Changer workshops, so 14 for that period. My big takeaway, and this has been reinforced by a Zoom call, Game Changer zoom call that I just had on Friday with four people who had been there for the Game Changer on Tuesday. You were there.
I'm just finishing the next book, which is called Your Life As A Strategy Circle. This is the first time in 36 years have I actually gone and actually described the mindset shift that happens inside of a strategy circle and we do a strategy circle.
Real pleasing results and we're just wrapping up this week with the cartoons and the text and the recordings. I always kind of late wait until this time to say, "Well, this is going to be the next book after this." I always have an early candidate that's kind of like the presidential elections. That those who say they're going to be the next person is always fraud.
All the Democrats that are jumping into their side of the contest right now, you know none of them are going to become the president because it's always a surprise or will not be the nominee. The trickster still has more tricks. I think he still has more tricks than he has shown so far. Anyway, the next one is called Who Do You Want To be A Hero To. That's the next.
Dean: Okay. Oh.
Dan: That came out so clearly that you really can't develop these game changers and stay with them unless you want to be a hero to a particular type of person. Till Miller, for example, who gave a terrific demonstration in our workshop who he wants to be a hero too, and he discovered this after involving letting the community actually help him is working surgeons. He wants to equip them with a virtual reality walkthrough capability, actual surgeries that they're going to do. I thought that was terrific.
Dean: I think you'll see that when he showed it I realized when he showed that grafting tool that he had created. He's truly an inventor. That's the thing. I don't think he's got the interest in running a tech company to really pursue the VR thing that he had created.
Dan: Or an educational company. He wants to truly, truly equip working surgeons with the greatest level of clarity, confidence and capability that he can give them. That's his true passion. That's his true passion. That's where all his own pain and joy have been as a surgeon and that's what he wants to serve.
Once you're lock on... I mean mine is a game changing entrepreneur. That's who I want to be a hero to. When I say I can do this for 25 years, at age, almost 75, that's an easy fix for me, because there would be no alternative candidates to that one.
Dean: Right. It's exciting.
Dan: Yeah, it is. I'm going to create the book and then I'll start creating thinking exercises where people can really zero in who do you actually want to be a hero to. That's a worthy project.
Dean: I can't wait.
Dan: Great discussion today.
Dean: I really enjoyed this. It's almost like we're not even recording a podcast.
Dan: Yeah, I love how we're going deeper into Cloudlandia and mainland. You have to write the book on that because that is truly yours.
Dean: That's such a good idea actually.
Dan: If you have an itch.
Dean: If you have an itch.
Dan: I'm going to go deeper.
Dean: If only I have a mechanism. If only I have a mechanism to actually make that happen.
Dan: Yeah. It's kind of funny because I was going to bring that up, but we had too much else to talk about. I think one of the coming podcast, we're going to talk about what Dean Jackson having an itch to do something. I want to go deep into what that experience is of itch.
Dean: Okay, perfect. I can't wait.
Dean: Okay, let's do that next time.
Dean: Thanks, Dan.
Dan: Have an itch to do it.
Dean: I'll talk to you next time.
Dan: Okay, thanks. Bye.